<div dir="ltr">It might be instructive to shop for microphones. Many studio audio components (e.g. mics) have a "noise floor", roughly the amount of noise added to the gain structure (e.g. some sequence of components, mics, preamps, etc) so the "mixer" can tell where to profitably apply various add-ons (compressors etc) to boost or attenuate bits and pieces of the recorded sound. For example, I have here an Audio Technica AT2020 condenser microphone (not a Colt revolver) with a certain frequency response, a noise floor, an open circuit sensitivity (?) , a dynamic range, an SNR, and so on. It takes awhile to figure all this out, and at some point you just Paypal it. I sort of know what these things are, but even naively I do hear huge differences from my Shure SM-57s. Rabbit hole warning (you may never fully emerge from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/TheHouseofKushTV/videos">https://www.youtube.com/c/TheHouseofKushTV/videos</a> ), but my point being that for any noise-ridden context there is much fiddly, and just SNR is not by itself all that descriptive in the audio technician world.<div><br></div><div>Disclaimer, I'm not an audio technician, just rubbing up against that world while trying to make my Taiko Zoom lessons better. And then there's video, oh, my.</div><div><br></div><div>Carl,</div><div>aspiring shop-man.</div><div><br></div><div> </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I always thought "shoot oneself in the foot" was inspired by cowboy gunfighters who were in such a hurry to draw fast that they pulled the trigger before getting their gun out of the holster.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I have a Colt 1873 revolver. I'll see if that makes sense. Joke!<br><br><div dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 6:52 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I was actually rendered speechless by Jochem's post, and the website it contained. <br>
<br>
Verbose as I am, I am sure that all of you are grateful when I honor something with my silence. <br>
<br>
I am thinking more about metaphor these days and trying to reconcile metaphor with monism. I may have to become a metaphor monist. <br>
<br>
A metaphor is real when it is that toward which our thinking trends in the very long run. Oddly enough, given your alertness to dead metaphors, a metaphor can lose its reality, as did "hoist by one's own petard" or change its reality as " shoot oneself in the foot" which I am guessing used to mean "to intentionally incapacitate oneself" and now means "to accidently do something self destructively stupid."<br>
<br>
If we are metaphor monists, we believe that "all thought is in metaphors" and that all metaphors are to other metaphors. Eric will instantly announce that Ihave fallen prey to blather. Perhaps so. But I hope to cash this out in the next few months. <br>
<br>
Nick <br>
<br>
N <br>
<br>
Nick Thompson<br>
<a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Prof David West<br>
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 6:23 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] signal and noise<br>
<br>
Nick, <br>
<br>
noise is the signal - no a koan at all, but a conjecture that all that is considered noise, at this point, will eventually be revealed as signal. In part because, I believe, that the 'noise' is essential context for interpreting the signal. This is based almost entirely on natural language where syntax is inadequate for conveying meaning.<br>
<br>
And, I was surprised when you failed to find justification from Jochen's post about metaphor and how it supports (y)our long held position that it is "metaphors all the way down."<br>
<br>
All,<br>
<br>
Thank you for the thoughtful responses to my question. I take to heart Glen's cautions about over generalization and "othering." None of the conversations I was referring to were binary, and all were comprised of nuanced polyphonic positions from all participants with points of agreement as frequent as disagreement. More empathy than othering.<br>
<br>
It does seem to me that if and when there was any kind of 'final divergence' it centered around a kind of signal-noise dichotomy along with an assertion of 'faith': e.g., anything human can do,HAL will do better; or, just say OM and drop acid.<br>
<br>
davew<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, at 10:22 AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
> David,<br>
><br>
> I was with you until "signal is the noise". Great Koan, but otherwise <br>
> useless for thought.<br>
><br>
> When you say, however, that there is a signal in what others take to <br>
> be noise, of course I have to prick up my ears. A great example of <br>
> this was that "junk" DNA which turned out to be, at least, structural. <br>
> It also turned out to be a mind of memory. Junk Schmunk.<br>
><br>
> N<br>
><br>
> Nick Thompson<br>
> <a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br>
> <a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Prof David West<br>
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 7:12 PM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
> Subject: [FRIAM] signal and noise<br>
><br>
> It seems, to me, that several conversations here\u2014AI, hallucinogens, <br>
> consciousness, participant observation, and epistemology\u2014have a common<br>
> aspect: a body of "data" and disagreement over which subset should be <br>
> attended to (Signal) and that which is irrelevant (Noise).<br>
><br>
> Arguments for sorting/categorization would include: lack of a Peircian <br>
> convergence/consensus; inability to propose proper experiments; <br>
> anecdotal versus systematic collection; an absolute conviction that <br>
> everything is algorithmic and, even if the algorithm has yet to be <br>
> discerned, it, ultimately, must be; etc..<br>
><br>
> I often feel as if my positions on these various topics reduces, in <br>
> some sense, to a conviction that there is overlooked Signal in <br>
> everyone else's Noise; even to the point of believing the Noise IS the Signal.<br>
><br>
> Is this in any way a "fair' or "reasonable" analysis?<br>
><br>
> davew<br>
><br>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <br>
> <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
> to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
> archives: 5/2017 thru present<br>
> <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <br>
> <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
> to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
> archives: 5/2017 thru present<br>
> <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
<br>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote></div>