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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/11/22 12:18 PM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfr3_7ox9CzenvFVe4SADmR9_-d8biDqya06298a9H+G9g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">My erstwhile boss Raj Reddy was in the same
Department with Simon and Newell and knew their work well. He
said that it was relatively easy to create a computer program
that did the work of a professor that the real challenge would
be to develop an autonomous bulldozer.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>And even more cool robotic working Elephants?<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://c8.alamy.com/comp/AXH7J2/asian-elephants-working-in-logging-industry-in-rainforests-of-muang-AXH7J2.jpg">https://c8.alamy.com/comp/AXH7J2/asian-elephants-working-in-logging-industry-in-rainforests-of-muang-AXH7J2.jpg</a><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://c8.alamy.com/comp/AXH7J2/asian-elephants-working-in-logging-industry-in-rainforests-of-muang-AXH7J2.jpg"
alt="" width="581" height="444"></p>
<p><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://singularityhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/SH-77_1-BIG.jpg"
alt="" width="580" height="327"></p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://singularityhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/SH-77_1-BIG.jpg">https://singularityhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/SH-77_1-BIG.jpg</a><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfr3_7ox9CzenvFVe4SADmR9_-d8biDqya06298a9H+G9g@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM</div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 11, 2022, 11:37 AM
Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Wolpert's
questions are fantastic. Thanks glen for prompting this
discussion.<br>
<br>
Re: question one about the "chasm with minimal cognitive
capabilities necessary ..."<br>
<br>
I have two major problems with the assumptions behind this
question.<br>
<br>
First, the assumption that Godel, Einstein, and Beethoven
exemplify 'greater' (in some sense of that word) cognitive
abilities. This is analogous the the AI notions advanced by
Newel and Simon that they had succeeded in creating a thinking
machine because the thinking reproduced was that of university
professors. They thought that the way they thought was the
apex of human thinking. A much greater challenge— still
avoided, even by the most sophisticated ML approaches — is how
a baby is able to learn and extract meaning from a chaotic
cacophony of inputs.<br>
<br>
Second, that the cognitive capabilities of pre-Holocene humans
were "minimal." The most pernicious myth with regard our long
ago ancestors derive from either Rousseau or Hobbes—both of
whom conjectured, with no evidence, that our ancestors existed
in a primitive state—Edenic for Rousseau, and brutish for
Hobbes, but simplistically primitive.<br>
<br>
Quite the opposite was true. The world was far more complex
and challenging, with everything from social relations to
'food chemistry' (e.g. brewing beer) to explanations of why
everything in the world was as it was being highly variable
across population groups and constantly in flux. A bit
analogous to the baby making sense of the world.<br>
<br>
Humans today are able to "survive" primarily because of tens
of thousands of years accumulation of "culture." Because we
have that resource, we do not have to figure out if that nice
striped quadruped over there will eat me; or, if that red
berry will kill me but the other red berry is essential for a
great BLT.<br>
<br>
It might be possible to make an argument: Godel, et. al., were
able to do what they did because 'culture' reduced the daily
(hourly, millisecond-ly) cognitive load such that it was
possible to put the 'surplus' to work on issues of math and
music; but, not that there was any kind of qualitative or
quantitative difference in cognitive abilities of humans then
and now.<br>
<br>
to be continued ...<br>
<br>
davew<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Sep 10, 2022, at 8:05 AM, Steve Smith wrote:<br>
> DaveW -<br>
>> Just wanted to put this here as a placeholder for
future conversation as I would like to take up Wolpert's
questions even though I am not "miraculous" per glen's
invitation. I do need a day to two to read and pose questions
/make observations, but others might be ready to chime in with
observations right away.<br>
><br>
> always ready to "chime" at the drop of a dime here...<br>
><br>
> I look forward to your more considered responses. I hope
my own chimes <br>
> aren't more mud than water...<br>
><br>
><br>
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