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<p>Marcus -</p>
<p>Well phrased. I would add that exploration provides the
(informational) resources necessary for exploitation, and
exploitation (of extant resources) supports more exploration...
This is the language of "progress" which some of us might suggest
is both inevitable/necessary, yet *might* needs be
self-regulated/modulated to avoid the unenelightened self-interest
failure-mode of unintended consequence. "Manifest Destiny" means
something entirely different to Daniel Boone, Ulysses S. Grant,
and Kit Carson than to most Native Americans, for example.<br>
</p>
<p>It was recently pointed out to me by a friend, (referencing
points made in Chris Hedges' _War is the Force that gives us
Meaning_) that the US Civil War never came to any actual
reconciliation and that without a collective reconciliation
(capitulation is not sufficient), there is no peace... the war may
go cold/underground, but it is not the same as peace. Rawanda,
South Africa, post WWII Germany and Japan seem to have achieved
that to some degree the Middle East, the Balkans, Southeast Asia,
and the US Civil War did not have that benefit, the wars just go
underground and/or into civil/economic society. And apparently
cold-war Russia V NATO is being relitigated (through violence). <br>
</p>
<p>I also recently learned a bit about the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor">Holodomor</a>
which really reframes (for the yet-worse) what Putin is up to
(echoing Stalin) in Ukraine. I can't believe I wasn't (made?)
aware of this back when it all came to a head with their invasion.<br>
</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/8/22 10:29 AM, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BYAPR11MB38302DF634811A34944DCFA8C53F9@BYAPR11MB3830.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Steve writes:
< The one-world-order/globalism that multinational industry, religion, and politics has been flirting with for millenia now seems like an inevitable happening upon which a fresh mode of complexity/diversity will emerge. It isn't un-motivated to resist the "integration" phase if you are one of the entities which evolved in the context of the leadup differentiation phase. >
I think of secular globalism as more of platform for the next fresh mode of complexity to emerge. The words I use (I think for the same thing) are exploration vs. exploitation, which roughly correspond to the union and the confederacy and their modern equivalents.
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2022 8:18 AM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting Verbed...
I think that throwing one's weight (wealth) around indiscriminately (without regard to obvious collateral damage) is an evil no less judge-able than other "sins of omission". It may be more *structural* or *systemic* evil than *personal* in the sense that *being a
billionaire* is a setup for out-of-scale (ir)responsibility. Trump may not be technically a billionaire any longer (unless you allow for billions in debt) if he ever was, but his cult-figure status translates into a much larger bull-in-china-shop presence than mere wealth.
If Musk's Twitter-buy makes any sense it is in the interplay of wealth, influence, ego and the erratic bull-in-china-shop application of wealth is clearly translating into a ego/influence boost *inside* the cult-of-Elon and it's collateral mutally-supporting vortices-of-ego (Trump, Putin, Thiel, Musk, Rogan, etc.) which just pumps more energy into the "chaos" (scare quotes intended). I'm sure they believe that they are doing the proverbial "millions of dollars worth of improvement"
attributed to tornado-systems when they tear through a 50's era mobile-home park. And within their logic system maybe it is literally true.
Regarding unipolar/multipolar/globalist/diversity arguments, the growth of complex adaptive systems includes the pattern of differentiation and re-integration at each level of complexity. The one-world-order/globalism that multinational industry, religion, and politics has been flirting with for millenia now seems like an inevitable happening upon which a fresh mode of complexity/diversity will emerge. It isn't un-motivated to resist the "integration" phase if you are one of the entities which evolved in the context of the leadup differentiation phase. It is not un-natural for sub-entities to be more and/or less "ready" to give over to or accept the next phase that implicitly undermines much of what makes it unique (differentiated).
It is complicated to try to span these levels of organizaiton, and in fact, possibly impossible? Is it possible for an entity at one level of scale/complexity to survive (be expansion) to embrace the next level (whatever levels actually mean in this context - nod to Glen's discussion/distrust around "levels")? Seems like not... even attempting to describe that transcending from my *level* is probably an illusion.
On 11/8/22 5:26 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Nichols' argument rings a little true with Musk and Trump, not so much
with Thiel. Along the lines of Doctorow, this guy has a plausible take:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/07/musks-twitter-buy-makes-no-sense-un">https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/07/musks-twitter-buy-makes-no-sense-un</a>
less-its-part-of-something-bigger/
The "multipolar" world might actually be a good faith attempt to
preserve/restore diversity. Most of my hard lefty friends really do
think the Dem establishment is an insidious evil who are exploiting
Evil[⛧] Republicans just so they can preserve their Liberal World
Order, in a unipolar way. So for deeper thinkers like Thiel (and maybe
the Musk of a decade ago), the ecological rhetoric that heterogeneity
allows for better solutions than homogeny is reasonable. [∝]
I certainly don't buy Troy's argument for the impulsive Musk that
trolls on Twitter and buys it, or the Trump who flops around like a
fish on the dock. They do seem to be acting out of grievance. Of
course, people are large, full of contradictions. Only our robot
overlords will be able to act truly rational.
[⛧] Capital "E" to indicate that the current batch is really too
stupid to be actually evil.
[∝] Of course, this ignores the regime/freezing argument where a
unipolar "driver" for a given homeostatic state allows for finer
grained wiggling inside. Even if Thiel and ilk are thinking in this
"heterodox" way, they might be blind to the idea their upsetting the
cart will destroy their own fortunes as well ... beyond the veil of
ignorance.
On 11/7/22 18:05, Marcus Daniels wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">After being a fly on the wall at SFI and similar places, this sounds
exactly right to me. Nixon too.
original.jpg
Elon. Trump. Resentment.
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-resentment/672030/"><https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r
esentment/672030/></a>
theatlantic.com
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-resentment/672030/"><https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r
esentment/672030/></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-resentment/672030/"><https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r
esentment/672030/></a>
Sent from my iPhone
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Nov 7, 2022, at 1:58 PM, Gillian Densmore
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com"><gil.densmore@gmail.com></a> wrote:
Oh and SCOTUSed, the tech sector getting Biden'd and Demed. The
Sunshine Protection act getting tantrum'd. Yes I will stay petty
about the dems and the house have a chance to do /something / other
than complain about other people and be in campaign mode all the
time I get news'd a retarded poloticioned (so poloticion.) your a
senator that's 900 years old acting like a 3 year old eh? congrats
on being a waste of air.
On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 2:47 PM Gillian Densmore
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com"><mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com></a>> wrote:
You forgot getting Bushed twice.
On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 1:59 PM Steve Smith <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"><mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com></a>> wrote:
We been Musked, we been Trumped, the Russians and Ukranians
and much of
Europe has been Putined and perhaps Balsinaro (and his
followers have
been sumarrily Lula'd)? One of the more satisfying targets
for my own
doomscrolling is to find examples of Corporate Execs and
Republican
AHoles being KatiePortered. SNL fans love watch loving
people get
McKinnoned.
I'm probably just begging to get Ropella'd here...
On 11/7/22 12:04 PM, glen wrote:
> Musk *is* the joke. A joke of a person ... like we now use
the verb Borked. "Musk" could be shorthand for Poe's Law,
exquisitely explained in the recent Onion friend of the court filing.
>
> "You were totally Musked, man. It's not even bad faith.
That guy couldn't joke his way out of a paper bag."
>
>
> On November 7, 2022 10:33:38 AM EST, Marcus Daniels
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"><mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com></a>> wrote:
>> Where’s the sense of humor now?
>>
>>
<<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo</a>
ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-boot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html"><https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo
ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html></a>>
>> [64260315-0-image-a-4_1667788476734.jpg]
>> Musk threatens to boot Twitter account
impersonators<<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk</a>
-threatens-boot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-boot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html"><https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo
ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html></a>>
>> dailymail.co.uk
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://dailymail.co.uk"><http://dailymail.co.uk></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11</a>
397213/Musk-threatens-boot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-boot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html"><https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo
ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html></a>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 5:53 PM, glen <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"><mailto:gepropella@gmail.com></a>> wrote:
>>
>> That you call Mastodon 'twitter-like' is discomforting.
ActivityPub is fundamentally different.I guess the premature
registration is reasonable, given the politics of the moment. But
the 'fediverse' really is distributed, very unlike twitter. I really
love that the Gab twits ported to Mastodon. That, unlike Musk's
perverted conception, is a real example of free speech. You really
are free to turn open source and open protocol to your weirdo
subculture. We just don't have to link to you.
>>
>> Don't think 'twitter-like'. Think 'decentralized'.
>>
>> On November 6, 2022 5:51:40 PM EST, Steve Smith
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"><mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com></a>> wrote:
>>
>> Trying to understand BookWyrm vs StoryGraph vs GoodReads
and Twitter vs Mastadon (and beyond), I found this aggregator of
alternative recommendations:
>>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://alternativeto.net/">https://alternativeto.net/</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://alternativeto.net/"><https://alternativeto.net/></a>
>>
>> which doesn't necessarily solve anything, it just makes
it obvious how challenging "too many choices" can be...
>>
>> After a lame attempt to go with Mastadon I decided to
abandond Twitter-like things altogether. I doubt I will be willing
to throw GoodReads over for anything else because of the
participating base of my own personal/family network there. I can
at least avoid clicking through a GoodReads recommendation to order
from Amazon.
>>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/">https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/"><https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/></a>
>>
>> I haven't begun (tried?) to evaluate AlternativeTo.Net
itself...
>>
>> Is this the tragedy of the "free market" (subset of
"commons")?
>>
>>
>> On 11/4/22 3:00 PM, glen wrote:
>> I'd forgotten about this until the release yesterday:
>>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://joinbookwyrm.com/">https://joinbookwyrm.com/</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://joinbookwyrm.com/"><https://joinbookwyrm.com/></a>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/2/22 14:52, Steve Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 11/2/22 9:43 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>> Thanks, Glen.
>>
>> It would be nice if there were a public bibliographic
reference url that one could use to name a book that only conveyed
the thing in itself. Goodreads was that once, then Amazon bought
them. Ditto for video and audio recordings and other objects of
public interest.
>>
>> I admit to continuing to use Goodreads this way in spite
of two problems... the Amazon affiliation/ownership of course, but
also the too often spotty reviews... I don't provide many nor
particularly good reviews myself, so I've no room to complain really.
>>
>> So I suppose I agree with your "public bibliographic
reference url" point. It seems as if Wikipedia is a good candidate
but I haven't done the work to understand how new entries are
made... are they always required to be made by a citizen of the
community who is NOT affiliated with the book (publisher, author,
etc)? I find a *lot* of the books I seek in Wikipedia and prefer
them for reference when their book-description (and cross links to
related works, author, etc) are particularly apt, but that is also
spotty. I use Goodreads mostly to follow what family/friends are
reading and what *they* think of their reads.
>>
>> The trend toward crowd-sourced public-use corpii being
acquired by private interests (even public corporations are private
interests) is disturbing (FB <-Mapillary, Amazon<-Goodreads)...
Twitter->BoringCo, etc)
>>
>>
>> Eugenia Cheng has other books and a pile of youtube
videos. Interestingly, her primary institutional affiliation is the
Art Institute of Chicago, where as resident scientist she teaches
math to art students. She has a public reading for kids scheduled
in Jersey City this month. Her definition of category theory is
"the mathematics of mathematics" which she expands as "the logical
study of the logical study of logical things."
>>
>> Hasok Chang has a third book, Is Water H2O, which Amazon
fails to index on his amazon author page, though it is on amazon at
a blistering price in every available format. I found a pdf on the
internets. It's details the history of working out the chemical
identity of water. Two themes are that 1) the consensus answers to
scientific questions often change in anticipation of the arrival of
corroboration, 2) there are often multiple acceptable answers to
scientific questions. These are possibly consequences of being a
realisitic realist.
>>
>> Interesting set of recursions... we CS types tend to
love our arbitrary-depth recursion, but the special cases like
double-negatives, and Rummy's unkown unknowns and now Chang's
logical logicologoy of logics and realistic realists are ...
*special*? While some may prefer "turtles all the way down"
sometimes just a few turtles deep suffices?
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>> PS... couldn't help hearing/reading "Cheech&Chong" on the
first reading of this thread.
>>
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 9:57 AM glen <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"><mailto:gepropella@gmail.com></a>><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">mailto:gepropella@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"><mailto:gepropella@gmail.com></a>> wrote:
>>
>> There. I fixed that for you. 8^D
>>
>> On 11/1/22 19:36, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>> > Interesting visit with my old boss/friend today, he
mentioned some books of interest, and while looking for them I
discovered yet another book.
>> >
>>
>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-o">https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-o</a>
f-math-category-theory-and-life-eugenia-cheng/18557720?ean=978110847
7222
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-of-math-category-theory-and-life-eugenia-cheng/18557720?ean=9781108477222"><https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-
of-math-category-theory-and-life-eugenia-cheng/18557720?ean=97811084
77222></a>
>>
>> > Exploration-Category-Theory/dp/1108477224>
>> > Eugenia Cheng, The Joy of Abstraction: An
Exploration of Math, Category Theory, and Life, published October 2022.
>> >
>> > A presentation of category theory that keeps the
underlying algebra basic.
>> >
>>
>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-s">https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-s</a>
cientific-progress-hasok-chang/9513488?ean=9780195337389
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-scientific-progress-hasok-chang/9513488?ean=9780195337389"><https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-
scientific-progress-hasok-chang/9513488?ean=9780195337389></a>
>>
>> > Hasok Chang, Inventing Temperature: Measurement and
Scientific Progress
>> >
>> > An itemized history of temperature and all the
wrong turns taken along the way, more detail than even the author
cares to read again. Poetic justice to examine the operation of the
pragmatist's ratchet and pawl over the centuries as it rescues
workable definitions of temperature from thermal confusion.
>> >
>>
>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-prag">https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-prag</a>
matist-philosophy-of-science-hasok-chang/18368583?ean=9781108470384
<<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-pra">https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-pra</a>
gmatist-philosophy-of-science-hasok-chang/18368583?ean=9781108470384
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
>>
>> > Hasok Chang, Realism for Realistic People: A New
Pragmatist Philosophy of Science, available on kindle on November
30, 2022.
>> >
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