<div dir="ltr">We forgot: (thing or trend) getting #cancled.<div>And Poodlesec, and LulSec's favorite pastime: DDoS'ed and Doxed.<br><div>Carry on.</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 10:30 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Steve writes:<br>
<br>
< The one-world-order/globalism that multinational industry, religion, and politics has been flirting with for millenia now seems like an inevitable happening upon which a fresh mode of complexity/diversity will emerge. It isn't un-motivated to resist the "integration" phase if you are one of the entities which evolved in the context of the leadup differentiation phase. ><br>
<br>
I think of secular globalism as more of platform for the next fresh mode of complexity to emerge. The words I use (I think for the same thing) are exploration vs. exploitation, which roughly correspond to the union and the confederacy and their modern equivalents.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Steve Smith<br>
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2022 8:18 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting Verbed...<br>
<br>
I think that throwing one's weight (wealth) around indiscriminately (without regard to obvious collateral damage) is an evil no less judge-able than other "sins of omission". It may be more *structural* or *systemic* evil than *personal* in the sense that *being a<br>
billionaire* is a setup for out-of-scale (ir)responsibility. Trump may not be technically a billionaire any longer (unless you allow for billions in debt) if he ever was, but his cult-figure status translates into a much larger bull-in-china-shop presence than mere wealth.<br>
<br>
If Musk's Twitter-buy makes any sense it is in the interplay of wealth, influence, ego and the erratic bull-in-china-shop application of wealth is clearly translating into a ego/influence boost *inside* the cult-of-Elon and it's collateral mutally-supporting vortices-of-ego (Trump, Putin, Thiel, Musk, Rogan, etc.) which just pumps more energy into the "chaos" (scare quotes intended). I'm sure they believe that they are doing the proverbial "millions of dollars worth of improvement" <br>
attributed to tornado-systems when they tear through a 50's era mobile-home park. And within their logic system maybe it is literally true.<br>
<br>
Regarding unipolar/multipolar/globalist/diversity arguments, the growth of complex adaptive systems includes the pattern of differentiation and re-integration at each level of complexity. The one-world-order/globalism that multinational industry, religion, and politics has been flirting with for millenia now seems like an inevitable happening upon which a fresh mode of complexity/diversity will emerge. It isn't un-motivated to resist the "integration" phase if you are one of the entities which evolved in the context of the leadup differentiation phase. It is not un-natural for sub-entities to be more and/or less "ready" to give over to or accept the next phase that implicitly undermines much of what makes it unique (differentiated).<br>
<br>
It is complicated to try to span these levels of organizaiton, and in fact, possibly impossible? Is it possible for an entity at one level of scale/complexity to survive (be expansion) to embrace the next level (whatever levels actually mean in this context - nod to Glen's discussion/distrust around "levels")? Seems like not... even attempting to describe that transcending from my *level* is probably an illusion.<br>
<br>
On 11/8/22 5:26 AM, glen\u2209\u2102 wrote:<br>
> Nichols' argument rings a little true with Musk and Trump, not so much <br>
> with Thiel. Along the lines of Doctorow, this guy has a plausible take:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/07/musks-twitter-buy-makes-no-sense-un" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/07/musks-twitter-buy-makes-no-sense-un</a><br>
> less-its-part-of-something-bigger/<br>
><br>
><br>
> The "multipolar" world might actually be a good faith attempt to <br>
> preserve/restore diversity. Most of my hard lefty friends really do <br>
> think the Dem establishment is an insidious evil who are exploiting <br>
> Evil[\u26e7] Republicans just so they can preserve their Liberal World <br>
> Order, in a unipolar way. So for deeper thinkers like Thiel (and maybe <br>
> the Musk of a decade ago), the ecological rhetoric that heterogeneity <br>
> allows for better solutions than homogeny is reasonable. [\u221d]<br>
><br>
> I certainly don't buy Troy's argument for the impulsive Musk that <br>
> trolls on Twitter and buys it, or the Trump who flops around like a <br>
> fish on the dock. They do seem to be acting out of grievance. Of <br>
> course, people are large, full of contradictions. Only our robot <br>
> overlords will be able to act truly rational.<br>
><br>
> [\u26e7] Capital "E" to indicate that the current batch is really too <br>
> stupid to be actually evil.<br>
><br>
> [\u221d] Of course, this ignores the regime/freezing argument where a <br>
> unipolar "driver" for a given homeostatic state allows for finer <br>
> grained wiggling inside. Even if Thiel and ilk are thinking in this <br>
> "heterodox" way, they might be blind to the idea their upsetting the <br>
> cart will destroy their own fortunes as well ... beyond the veil of <br>
> ignorance.<br>
><br>
> On 11/7/22 18:05, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
>> After being a fly on the wall at SFI and similar places, this sounds <br>
>> exactly right to me. Nixon too.<br>
>><br>
>> original.jpg<br>
>> Elon. Trump. Resentment. <br>
>> <<a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r</a><br>
>> esentment/672030/><br>
>> <a href="http://theatlantic.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">theatlantic.com</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r</a><br>
>> esentment/672030/><br>
>><br>
>> <<a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/11/elon-trump-r</a><br>
>> esentment/672030/><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>><br>
>>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 1:58 PM, Gillian Densmore <br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com" target="_blank">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> \ufeff<br>
>>> Oh and SCOTUSed, the tech sector getting Biden'd and Demed. The <br>
>>> Sunshine Protection act getting tantrum'd. Yes I will stay petty <br>
>>> about the dems and the house have a chance to do /something / other <br>
>>> than complain about other people and be in campaign mode all the <br>
>>> time I get news'd a retarded poloticioned (so poloticion.) your a <br>
>>> senator that's 900 years old acting like a 3 year old eh? congrats <br>
>>> on being a waste of air.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 2:47 PM Gillian Densmore <br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com" target="_blank">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com" target="_blank">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> You forgot getting Bushed twice.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 1:59 PM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a> <br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> We been Musked, we been Trumped, the Russians and Ukranians <br>
>>> and much of<br>
>>> Europe has been Putined and perhaps Balsinaro (and his <br>
>>> followers have<br>
>>> been sumarrily Lula'd)? One of the more satisfying targets <br>
>>> for my own<br>
>>> doomscrolling is to find examples of Corporate Execs and <br>
>>> Republican<br>
>>> AHoles being KatiePortered. SNL fans love watch loving <br>
>>> people get<br>
>>> McKinnoned.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm probably just begging to get Ropella'd here...<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 11/7/22 12:04 PM, glen wrote:<br>
>>> > Musk *is* the joke. A joke of a person ... like we now use <br>
>>> the verb Borked. "Musk" could be shorthand for Poe's Law, <br>
>>> exquisitely explained in the recent Onion friend of the court filing.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > "You were totally Musked, man. It's not even bad faith. <br>
>>> That guy couldn't joke his way out of a paper bag."<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > On November 7, 2022 10:33:38 AM EST, Marcus Daniels <br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>> >> Where\u2019s the sense of humor now?<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> <<a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo</a><br>
>>> ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html<br>
>>> <<a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo</a><br>
>>> ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html>><br>
>>><br>
>>> >> [64260315-0-image-a-4_1667788476734.jpg]<br>
>>> >> Musk threatens to boot Twitter account <br>
>>> impersonators<<a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk</a><br>
>>> -threatens-boot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html<br>
>>> <<a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo</a><br>
>>> ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html>><br>
>>><br>
>>> >> <a href="http://dailymail.co.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dailymail.co.uk</a><br>
>>> <<a href="http://dailymail.co.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://dailymail.co.uk</a>><<a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11</a><br>
>>> 397213/Musk-threatens-boot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html<br>
>>> <<a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11397213/Musk-threatens-bo</a><br>
>>> ot-Twitter-account-impersonators.html>><br>
>>><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On Nov 6, 2022, at 5:53 PM, glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a> <br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> \ufeff That you call Mastodon 'twitter-like' is discomforting. <br>
>>> ActivityPub is fundamentally different.I guess the premature <br>
>>> registration is reasonable, given the politics of the moment. But <br>
>>> the 'fediverse' really is distributed, very unlike twitter. I really <br>
>>> love that the Gab twits ported to Mastodon. That, unlike Musk's <br>
>>> perverted conception, is a real example of free speech. You really <br>
>>> are free to turn open source and open protocol to your weirdo <br>
>>> subculture. We just don't have to link to you.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Don't think 'twitter-like'. Think 'decentralized'.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On November 6, 2022 5:51:40 PM EST, Steve Smith <br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Trying to understand BookWyrm vs StoryGraph vs GoodReads <br>
>>> and Twitter vs Mastadon (and beyond), I found this aggregator of <br>
>>> alternative recommendations:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> <a href="https://alternativeto.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://alternativeto.net/</a> <<a href="https://alternativeto.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://alternativeto.net/</a>><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> which doesn't necessarily solve anything, it just makes <br>
>>> it obvious how challenging "too many choices" can be...<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> After a lame attempt to go with Mastadon I decided to <br>
>>> abandond Twitter-like things altogether. I doubt I will be willing <br>
>>> to throw GoodReads over for anything else because of the <br>
>>> participating base of my own personal/family network there. I can <br>
>>> at least avoid clicking through a GoodReads recommendation to order <br>
>>> from Amazon.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> <a href="https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/</a><br>
>>> <<a href="https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://alternativeto.net/software/bookwyrm/</a>><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> I haven't begun (tried?) to evaluate AlternativeTo.Net <br>
>>> itself...<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Is this the tragedy of the "free market" (subset of <br>
>>> "commons")?<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On 11/4/22 3:00 PM, glen wrote:<br>
>>> >> I'd forgotten about this until the release yesterday:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> <a href="https://joinbookwyrm.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://joinbookwyrm.com/</a> <<a href="https://joinbookwyrm.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://joinbookwyrm.com/</a>><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On 11/2/22 14:52, Steve Smith wrote:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On 11/2/22 9:43 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:<br>
>>> >> Thanks, Glen.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> It would be nice if there were a public bibliographic <br>
>>> reference url that one could use to name a book that only conveyed <br>
>>> the thing in itself. Goodreads was that once, then Amazon bought <br>
>>> them. Ditto for video and audio recordings and other objects of <br>
>>> public interest.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> I admit to continuing to use Goodreads this way in spite <br>
>>> of two problems... the Amazon affiliation/ownership of course, but <br>
>>> also the too often spotty reviews... I don't provide many nor <br>
>>> particularly good reviews myself, so I've no room to complain really.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> So I suppose I agree with your "public bibliographic <br>
>>> reference url" point. It seems as if Wikipedia is a good candidate <br>
>>> but I haven't done the work to understand how new entries are <br>
>>> made... are they always required to be made by a citizen of the <br>
>>> community who is NOT affiliated with the book (publisher, author, <br>
>>> etc)? I find a *lot* of the books I seek in Wikipedia and prefer <br>
>>> them for reference when their book-description (and cross links to <br>
>>> related works, author, etc) are particularly apt, but that is also <br>
>>> spotty. I use Goodreads mostly to follow what family/friends are <br>
>>> reading and what *they* think of their reads.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> The trend toward crowd-sourced public-use corpii being <br>
>>> acquired by private interests (even public corporations are private<br>
>>> interests) is disturbing (FB <-Mapillary, Amazon<-Goodreads)... <br>
>>> Twitter->BoringCo, etc)<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Eugenia Cheng has other books and a pile of youtube <br>
>>> videos. Interestingly, her primary institutional affiliation is the <br>
>>> Art Institute of Chicago, where as resident scientist she teaches <br>
>>> math to art students. She has a public reading for kids scheduled <br>
>>> in Jersey City this month. Her definition of category theory is <br>
>>> "the mathematics of mathematics" which she expands as "the logical <br>
>>> study of the logical study of logical things."<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Hasok Chang has a third book, Is Water H2O, which Amazon <br>
>>> fails to index on his amazon author page, though it is on amazon at <br>
>>> a blistering price in every available format. I found a pdf on the <br>
>>> internets. It's details the history of working out the chemical <br>
>>> identity of water. Two themes are that 1) the consensus answers to <br>
>>> scientific questions often change in anticipation of the arrival of <br>
>>> corroboration, 2) there are often multiple acceptable answers to <br>
>>> scientific questions. These are possibly consequences of being a <br>
>>> realisitic realist.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Interesting set of recursions... we CS types tend to <br>
>>> love our arbitrary-depth recursion, but the special cases like <br>
>>> double-negatives, and Rummy's unkown unknowns and now Chang's <br>
>>> logical logicologoy of logics and realistic realists are ...<br>
>>> *special*? While some may prefer "turtles all the way down" <br>
>>> sometimes just a few turtles deep suffices?<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> - Steve<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> PS... couldn't help hearing/reading "Cheech&Chong" on the <br>
>>> first reading of this thread.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> -- rec --<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 9:57 AM glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a> <br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>><mailto:<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> There. I fixed that for you. 8^D<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On 11/1/22 19:36, Roger Critchlow wrote:<br>
>>> >> > Interesting visit with my old boss/friend today, he <br>
>>> mentioned some books of interest, and while looking for them I <br>
>>> discovered yet another book.<br>
>>> >> ><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-o" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-o</a><br>
>>> f-math-category-theory-and-life-eugenia-cheng/18557720?ean=978110847<br>
>>> 7222 <br>
>>> <<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-joy-of-abstraction-an-exploration-</a><br>
>>> of-math-category-theory-and-life-eugenia-cheng/18557720?ean=97811084<br>
>>> 77222><br>
>>><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> > Exploration-Category-Theory/dp/1108477224><br>
>>> >> > Eugenia Cheng, The Joy of Abstraction: An <br>
>>> Exploration of Math, Category Theory, and Life, published October 2022.<br>
>>> >> ><br>
>>> >> > A presentation of category theory that keeps the <br>
>>> underlying algebra basic.<br>
>>> >> ><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-s" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-s</a><br>
>>> cientific-progress-hasok-chang/9513488?ean=9780195337389<br>
>>> <<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bookshop.org/p/books/inventing-temperature-measurement-and-</a><br>
>>> scientific-progress-hasok-chang/9513488?ean=9780195337389><br>
>>><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> > Hasok Chang, Inventing Temperature: Measurement and <br>
>>> Scientific Progress<br>
>>> >> ><br>
>>> >> > An itemized history of temperature and all the <br>
>>> wrong turns taken along the way, more detail than even the author <br>
>>> cares to read again. Poetic justice to examine the operation of the <br>
>>> pragmatist's ratchet and pawl over the centuries as it rescues <br>
>>> workable definitions of temperature from thermal confusion.<br>
>>> >> ><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-prag" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-prag</a><br>
>>> matist-philosophy-of-science-hasok-chang/18368583?ean=9781108470384<br>
>>> <<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-pra" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bookshop.org/p/books/realism-for-realistic-people-a-new-pra</a><br>
>>> gmatist-philosophy-of-science-hasok-chang/18368583?ean=9781108470384<br>
>>> ><br>
>>><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> > Hasok Chang, Realism for Realistic People: A New <br>
>>> Pragmatist Philosophy of Science, available on kindle on November <br>
>>> 30, 2022.<br>
>>> >> ><br>
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-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
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