<div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto">Gotcha!</div><div>I don't know man. You can swim in the same water used to cool rods because water close to the rods blocks neutrons. My concern about the DOE putting so many eggs in the fusion basket and ignoring the day to day year to year. Breeder reactors as a proven reliable start aren't without their own issues. not the least of witch is the production of weaponizable fissile materials (:( ) . </div><div>And yeah you bring up a good point need something like CERN or the Large Hagon collider to get even enough raw material to heat a tea cup for 30 minutes. </div><div>Do you know if that's something we can over come?</div><div>I guess i'm staring in mortified terror that global warming is here. needing just a few huge changes. I mean don't get me wrong fusion has huge potential. But at the same time Fission is here. just to get the proverbial ball rolling it'd be pretty sweet to start with that wouldn't it?</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 6:22 PM Barry MacKichan <<a href="mailto:barry.mackichan@mackichan.com" target="_blank">barry.mackichan@mackichan.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<div><div>
<p dir="auto">I am a long-time environmentalist (I think I joined the Wilderness Society in the early 60’s) and I opposed fission power plants because of safety issues and because of the long-lived waste products. My feeling is that even if you make the probability of a screw-up very low, given 10,000 yearsm <em>something</em> will happen.</p>
<p dir="auto">Now with global warming imminent, I support some fission plants as a back-up to solar and wind (and tide, …) generators.</p>
<p dir="auto">The problem with antimatter is, what kind of bottle will you put it in? Also, to make antimatter, you need to put as much (actually more: conservation of energy — bummer) into it as you will get out, so one step forward, then one and a half back.</p>
<p dir="auto">--Barry</p>
<p dir="auto">On 15 Dec 2022, at 16:28, Gillian Densmore wrote:</p>
</div>
<div></div>
<blockquote><div dir="ltr"><div>Ok so this is cool and all. <br></div><div>Sigh I'll ask <i>that</i> question. We want less carbons because <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">the planet is on f'n fire</a> . As far as I know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we made this mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.</div><div>So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as much money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute amounts of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy created would be a massive honney pot the department of energy would pursue as well.</div><div>I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot cleaner and safer than oil and coal I say) <br></div><div>I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well</div><div>What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings with it being just arround the corner for decades. while matter/anti matter is (sort of) here. Fission is here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a ton of reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
<div><br>
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<div> <a href="https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant</a><br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><span>Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this topic for another day. I've got a few more links from other fora I'll plop here just in case I only land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span><a href="https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction of Deuterium/Tritium remaining after the reaction event (-4%) without specific accounting for remaining D vs T.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>My understanding is that D-T fusion occurs at a lower temperature than D-D but that once fusion commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D reactions occurring in similar amounts. In laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I believe
the ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would seem to make sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most references I see imply equal portions. An equal number of D-D and D-T reactions would seem to consume D more quickly, though as that commences,
the D/T ratio would go down, making D-T reactions (yet) more likely... tricky business, no wonder it has taken decades to get to this point?</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I found several popular science Articles which seem to reinforce my sense that this "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T and D-D fusion...</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions</a> <<a href="https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html</a> <<a href="https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 12/13/22 4:36 PM, glen wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT means both deuterium and tritium, not just deuterium. If you were going to track fuel use, you'd track the rarer part more closely, right?</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>DT = deuterium?</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>---</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Frank C. Wimberly</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>140 Calle Ojo Feliz,</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Santa Fe, NM 87505</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>505 670-9918</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Santa Fe, NM</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span> Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up with the QC Wormhole kerfuffle. Who knew Quanta was so click baity?</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span> What is "DT"?</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span> On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:</span><br>
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</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to watch DOE administrators talk:</span><br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time was important for maintaining symmetry. Timing precision of 25e-12 secs and laser spatial precision of 5e-12 meter were needed. This was thought to be the main explanation for
the achievement.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time</span><br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in the capsules. Developing software to do the counting.</span><br>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the fabrication systems and their components (done in Germany) to find idiosyncrasies of each.</span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 5. Laser technology improvements since NIF was built which are 20% more efficient.</span><br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 6. Target cost is from labor, and it takes 7 months each</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 7. 4% of DT is burned in a shot</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 8. Machine learning ties together radiation hydrodynamics and experimental data. (It sounded preliminary.)</span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 9. The (successful) capsule had more defects than previous experiments. However, previous experiments did show benefits from capsule quality.</span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 10. 15% of experiments are indirect drive of this kind, 15% of experiments are other approaches to ignition. The rest are weapons and materials characterization.</span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> ></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span> > 11. Anomalous laser directional control were problems in the summer runs. Fixed that.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>-- </span><br>
<span>ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ</span><br>
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