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    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:01EEBD59-90F0-4F6B-B9A7-8319E83ACFC5@santafe.edu">
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      I doubt the answer would be interesting, but one could give it as
      a Fermi problem to an undergraduate geology class (who don’t do
      Fermi problems; but the physicists won’t know any geology).
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Terawatt-scale extraction of geothermal energy will
        increase the effective conduction of heat from the bottom of the
        mantle (directly or indirectly) to the surface, increasing the
        rate at which the solid inner core grows by freezing of the
        molten outer core.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">How much, for how long, can we extract, until the
        inner core grows enough that the geodynamo shuts down, ending
        the Earth’s magnetic field, the van Allen belts etc., and
        exposing the atmosphere directly to spalling by protons from the
        solar wind?  </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">And you thought the shutdown of the north-atlantic
        thermohaline was a problem!<br class="">
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    and isn't that what happened on Barsoom?<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:01EEBD59-90F0-4F6B-B9A7-8319E83ACFC5@santafe.edu">
      <div class="">
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Dec 16, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Marcus Daniels
              <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
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                    12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"
                    class="ContentPasted0">I do like the microwave
                    energy transmission idea.  I seem to recall that <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.quaise.energy&c=E,1,i7KEoFhj8RfmmzQxSzRWIo92uxgI5qwES5F0AiZpxtIaxDFv_9qM1S_k1favS9oro6Wc-xxxdGI9SSqT_pRtOWM7cMDB5qtpDbFM6o789dwKS3l8&typo=1"
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                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.quaise.energy</a> got
                    their first test device from the Air Force in
                    Albuquerque that was experimenting with the devices
                    for crowd control.   Think of it!   5G that has a
                    high-power beam forming mode that could disable
                    pedestrians at any location! </span></div>
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                    class="ContentPasted1 ContentPasted0"><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.osti.gov%2fservlets%2fpurl%2f1169951&c=E,1,ZpWB376zypp1vASQJNnUNSZxvEnVc1oR_uKG_sashcRaqhpd3fAWec8sbN5HbDQwMctWbPfEMFUisetxm287Z4MSW7JV0c-w3G3MtIR_Mp2rEAo,&typo=1"
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                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1169951</a><br
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                                style="text-decoration: none; color:
                                var(--themePrimary);" class=""
                                moz-do-not-send="true">Deep Geothermal
                                Drilling Using Millimeter Wave
                                Technology (Final Technical Research
                                Report) (Technical Report) | OSTI.GOV -
                                Office of Scientific and Technical
                                Information</a></div>
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                              Abstract. Conventional drilling methods
                              are very mature, but still have difficulty
                              drilling through very deep,very hard and
                              hot rocks for geothermal, nuclear waste
                              entombment and oil and gas
                              applications.This project demonstrated the
                              capabilities of utilizing only high energy
                              beams to drill such rocks,commonly called
                              ‘Direct Energy Drilling’, which has been
                              the dream of industry since the ...</div>
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                                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.osti.gov</a></div>
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                                style="text-decoration: none; color:
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                              Quaise is an energy company unlocking
                              geothermal energy for the world population
                              through millimeter wave drilling
                              technology.</div>
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href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.quaise.energy&c=E,1,EoUr194LsLgnmfEzQwxcHXbNHWIBNSCKFysZ92shETogzxdNF3L33zcxJAKPhuRPxbUvUd45WRQLUjJDfRcpCYbOi7JIoqkYLTAzQbJGNQ,,&typo=1&ancr_add=1"
                                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.quaise.energy</a></div>
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                <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font
                    style="font-size:11pt" class="" face="Calibri,
                    sans-serif"><b class="">From:</b> Friam <<a
                      href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
                    on behalf of Steve Smith <<a
                      href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>><br
                      class="">
                    <b class="">Sent:</b> Friday, December 16, 2022
                    11:38 AM<br class="">
                    <b class="">To:</b> <a
                      href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a> <<a
                      href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
                      class="">
                    <b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] technical notes
                    on fusion announcement</font>
                  <div class=""> </div>
                </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 12/16/22 10:56 AM,
                    cody dooderson wrote:<br class="">
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div dir="auto" class="">I had never heard of a
                      transatlantic power grid. That is an interesting
                      idea. The sun is probably shining somewhere on the
                      earth at any given time. Would a lot of energy get
                      wasted with the long distances?
                      <br class="">
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p class=""><br class="">
                  </p>
                  <p class="">Nikola Tesla is rolling in his
                    magnetically shielded grave hearing all this
                    wasteful and under-inspired talk of
                    <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftheconversation.com%2fnikola-tesla-5g-network-could-realise-his-dream-of-wireless-electricity-a-century-after-experiments-failed-158665%23%3a~%3atext%3dHe%2520theorised%2520that%2520electricity%2520could%2celectricity%2520supply%2520were%2520never%2520realised.&c=E,1,Z78KbArJ6ZyU4lsCH5ZTaAazBlBWFSYCD5BB-tmHwnH6h0KlN-u-rHr15bAjmi0yHDrhOpM_uVTQk6N_VKmFjet3NUjoGL7pnF46-IaCnApO&typo=1"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
                      long-range power transmission</a> via wires?<br
                      class="">
                  </p>
                  <p class="">my SF addled brain conjures a <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.tntdrama.com%2fsnowpiercer&c=E,1,3632M-ARYoh18WP4Ebg9xB7ZSdj5vN7EfteAgA48GjtVg9HnSQwm-8NYZq16dpKsqI3NXxIlv9VWQRQ5t-Lf__nO18TM9jkB_qZEUbaE&typo=1"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">snow-piercer</a>
                    style earth-circumscribing rail-line... the pylons
                    can be driven so deep into the earth's crust that
                    they are tapped into the earth's inner heat, the
                    rails can be the DC conduit Marcus suggests.   There
                    can be as many windmills and tidal turbines placed
                    along the line as one feels they
                    need/can-afford/stand-to-see as well as a PV/thermo
                    solar continuous collector/shade-roof which can also
                    enhance gradient by radiating into the  (<a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f153839%2fwhat-is-the-temperature-of-the-clear-night-sky-from-the-surface-of-earth&c=E,1,Mym_MVP2YQQpG8ShnGwNgqA7mlDs-14HRuNLYPSrS_TLcWTQJS93tLKc4WuPtM4hKFR6eL-VrRsD-AeTXOFgpPm7pZnaTZp62gbUe8d3bxk3j7LI9ZTRZjXrHA,,&typo=1"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">2.73-273 deg K</a>)
                    sky at night.   The Snowpiercer rail-cars can move
                    (make them pneumatic or evacuated-ballistic
                    (~18mi/sec?)) physical goods and materials
                    continuously...   (thank you Elon Musk).  Mount a
                    few
                    <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.spinlaunch.com%2f&c=E,1,MOTshsb7TvaaZ3PnkdVodS1gcu9F7R_4CgYU2PKnxxnEl1alwhxwZZvlgvTDntZXW0c2_jWEyWazC5Q0iiFKcDMQ6dKv7VFywXQXnP6W-gqfLUIwrenxbQ,,&typo=1"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Spinlaunch</a>
                    units on train units and squirt things into orbit
                    at-will?<br class="">
                  </p>
                  <p class="">Wait, maybe it can become a strip-city
                    modeled on <a
                      href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Line,_Saudi_Arabia"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
                      SA's "Line"</a>... at 100 miles long and 9million
                    population, the circumferential "line" would be 240
                    times as long and have a carrying capacity of >2
                    Billion based on their predicted precedent.    Place
                    three of these orthogonal to one another like an
                    <a
                      href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillary_sphere"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">armillary sphere</a>
                    and we are up to 6B?   A modest bump in scale (cube
                    root of 1.5) could accommodate 9B!   A few of us
                    (DaveW, GaryS, ... myself)  rebellious non-urban
                    renegades could live in the remaining landscape NOT
                    covered by these 3 circumscribing strip cities and
                    live our lives in the spirit of Sean Connery's
                    character Zed in
                    <a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Zardoz</a>!<br
                      class="">
                  </p>
                  <p class="">Heck, just a nice precursor to <a
href="https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11183/could-we-build-a-ringworld-17166651/"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
                      Larry Niven's Ringworld</a>   tell Musk he can
                    keep his claims to Mars... at least until the rest
                    of us need the mass to integrate into a proper
                    <a
href="https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11098/dyson-sphere/"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
                      Dyson Sphere</a>...</p>
                  <blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
                    <div class="x_gmail_quote">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec
                        16, 2022, 10:46 AM Gillian Densmore <<a
                          href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com"
                          class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                          moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a>>
                        wrote:<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                        0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid;
                        padding-left:1ex">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="">frank: ah! thanks. It
                          seems like you've had 99 lives man.<br
                            class="">
                        </div>
                        <br class="">
                        <div class="x_gmail_quote">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Fri,
                            Dec 16, 2022 at 12:28 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
                              href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
                              target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                              class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                              moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
                            wrote:<br class="">
                          </div>
                          <blockquote class="x_gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                            border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
                            padding-left:1ex">
                            <div class="">
                              <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                <div class=""><span style="font-family:
                                    Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,
                                    sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
                                    background-color: rgb(255, 255,
                                    255);" class="">I like the idea of a
                                    large transatlantic DC power cable.
                                      That would enable solar power to
                                    be distributed around the world.  
                                    It would reduce the need to depend
                                    on batteries for wind and solar.  
                                    Of course, you raise #3, so it would
                                    be a target for sabotage like with
                                    Nordstream.  It would be nice to
                                    think there are things just to
                                    valuable to destroy, but probably
                                    there are no such things.</span></div>
                                <hr style="display:inline-block;
                                  width:98%" class="">
                                <div
                                  id="x_m_-2301734486870571381m_8721844790296258388divRplyFwdMsg"
                                  dir="ltr" class=""><font
                                    style="font-size:11pt" class=""
                                    face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b
                                      class="">From:</b> Friam <<a
                                      href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
                                      target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                      class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                                      moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
                                    on behalf of Sarbajit Roy <<a
                                      href="mailto:sroy.mb@gmail.com"
                                      target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                      class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                                      moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">sroy.mb@gmail.com</a>><br
                                      class="">
                                    <b class="">Sent:</b> Friday,
                                    December 16, 2022 12:01 AM<br
                                      class="">
                                    <b class="">To:</b> The Friday
                                    Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
                                    Group <<a
                                      href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                                      target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                      class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                                      moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
                                      class="">
                                    <b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM]
                                    technical notes on fusion
                                    announcement</font>
                                  <div class=""> </div>
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                    <div
                                      style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
                                      class="">What you are missing
                                      includes <br class="">
                                      1) Disposal of long term hazardous
                                      nuclear waste.<br class="">
                                      2) Problems in maintaining /
                                      decommissioning ol older nuclear
                                      fission plants<br class="">
                                      3) Examples like we are seeing
                                      Ukraine's nuclear plants caught up
                                      in a war.</div>
                                  </div>
                                  <br class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div dir="ltr" class="">On Fri, Dec
                                      16, 2022 at 2:59 AM Gillian
                                      Densmore <<a
                                        href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                        class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                                        moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a>>
                                      wrote:<br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px
                                      0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid
                                      rgb(204,204,204);
                                      padding-left:1ex" class="">
                                      <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                        <div class="">Ok so this is cool
                                          and all. <br class="">
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="">Sigh I'll ask <i
                                            class="">that</i> question.
                                          We want less carbons because <a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E" target="_blank"
                                            rel="noreferrer" class=""
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">the
                                            planet is on f'n fire</a>  .
                                          As far as I know humans (in
                                          the very least) accelerated
                                          climate change. Ie we made
                                          this mess clean it up. ok fair
                                          so far I'm following.</div>
                                        <div class="">So uh why not just
                                          start with fission (breeders)
                                          ? Why not also put as much
                                          money into matter/anti matter
                                          as well as fusion? We can make
                                          minute amounts of antimatter
                                          in massive collider. I'd think
                                          something who's by product are
                                          xrays gamma and some other
                                          stuff with a lot of energy
                                          created would be a massive
                                          honney pot the department of
                                          energy would pursue as well.</div>
                                        <div class="">I know the answer
                                          to fission (sadly) is NIMBY.
                                          (yes but it's a lot cleaner
                                          and safer than oil and coal I
                                          say)
                                          <br class="">
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="">I don't know why
                                          we haven't looked at other
                                          things as well</div>
                                        <div class="">What I'm saying is
                                          fusion has been humans icarus
                                          wings with it being just
                                          arround the corner for
                                          decades. while matter/anti
                                          matter is (sort of) here.
                                          Fission is here. Want zero
                                          carbons? cool! so why not
                                          build out a ton of reactors we
                                          already can do. Or am I
                                          missing something?<br class="">
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <br class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div dir="ltr" class="">On Wed,
                                          Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus
                                          Daniels <<a
                                            href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            rel="noreferrer"
                                            class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                                            moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
                                          wrote:<br class="">
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote style="margin:0px
                                          0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px
                                          solid rgb(204,204,204);
                                          padding-left:1ex" class="">
                                          <div dir="auto" class="">How
                                            ICF might evolve into a
                                            power plant:
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">  <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ffirstlightfusion.com%2ftechnology%2fpower-plant&c=E,1,1NJ-XcDEmKi04uhzUB2lMLLrnNmeOamZbsh4x1nomKptnRcepuAG6nIzZa-Vkp6j7FXfy6H03NI33ZqC50Mmb520tTTW8fZrKMl6VNCK&typo=1"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                rel="noreferrer"
                                                class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant</a><br
                                                class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <div dir="ltr" class="">Sent
                                                from my iPhone</div>
                                              <div dir="ltr" class=""><br
                                                  class="">
                                                <blockquote type="cite"
                                                  class="">On Dec 14,
                                                  2022, at 7:16 AM, glen
                                                  <<a
                                                    href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    rel="noreferrer"
                                                    class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>
                                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                                  <br class="">
                                                </blockquote>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite"
                                                class="">
                                                <div dir="ltr" class=""><span
                                                    class="">Excellent!
                                                    Thanks. I think I'll
                                                    have to push this
                                                    topic for another
                                                    day. I've got a few
                                                    more links from
                                                    other fora I'll plop
                                                    here just in case I
                                                    only land back here
                                                    if/when I pop it off
                                                    the stack later:</span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flasers.llnl.gov%2fnews%2fmagnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance&c=E,1,hBEOlKMckpiDlTJRo-WMQ56EfZB3lRXOEUuD1VMkpQJa7P3Uai717KSKg7Vj3lVpfZ5obboXZXkuKQjsh_7Q5MxlQr9IE-41gqZdtlw9JzZ5y8CqG4kq7gnyKg,,&typo=1"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      rel="noreferrer"
                                                      class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance</a></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fspie.org%2fnews%2fnuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis%3fSSO%3d1&c=E,1,GpCwEyhXVZIFhCAPfuU3lWNSG77phcjxX5MROX9cuTbzcMJv84wE7troNfSjHa6PTjz6yJ13kVQltdk8tYUMQCp7SXNmzljHyri7FdraVJOlK_7siKJ86g,,&typo=1"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      rel="noreferrer"
                                                      class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1</a></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fcontent%2farticle%2ffusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started&c=E,1,jUBL7xpus60wLeNUs2773Lb4fAQckmofYkTHcMV4xRrIfZK7qgpaj1zbVa0DgSUnnKWOduJnGFagpMIdATeil7rK35MgkXSpBuXj-y8WZg,,&typo=1"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      rel="noreferrer"
                                                      class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started</a></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""><a
href="https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      rel="noreferrer"
                                                      class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/</a></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class="">On
                                                    12/13/22 16:23,
                                                    Steve Smith wrote:</span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class="">I think
                                                      DT refers simply
                                                      to the remaining
                                                      fraction of
                                                      Deuterium/Tritium
                                                      remaining after
                                                      the reaction event
                                                      (-4%) without
                                                      specific
                                                      accounting for
                                                      remaining D vs T.</span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class="">My
                                                      understanding is
                                                      that D-T  fusion
                                                      occurs at a lower
                                                      temperature than
                                                      D-D but that once
                                                      fusion commences
                                                      (starting with
                                                      D-T), both D-T and
                                                      D-D reactions
                                                      occurring in
                                                      similar amounts.
                                                      In laser-driven
                                                      ICF (as with NIF)
                                                      I believe the
                                                      ratio of D/T is
                                                      nominally 50/50
                                                      though it would
                                                      seem to make sense
                                                      to have a higher T
                                                      to D ratio but
                                                      most references I
                                                      see imply equal
                                                      portions.   An
                                                      equal number of
                                                      D-D and D-T
                                                      reactions would
                                                      seem to consume D
                                                      more quickly,
                                                      though as that
                                                      commences, the D/T
                                                      ratio would go
                                                      down, making D-T
                                                      reactions (yet)
                                                      more likely...  
                                                      tricky business,
                                                      no wonder it has
                                                      taken decades to
                                                      get to this point?</span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class="">The
                                                      Wikipedia Entry on
                                                      ICF is pretty
                                                      good: <a
                                                        href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noreferrer"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion</a></span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class="">I found
                                                      several popular
                                                      science Articles
                                                      which seem to
                                                      reinforce my sense
                                                      that this
                                                      "breakthrough" is
                                                      not as significant
                                                      as implied:</span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class="">   <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fcontent%2farticle%2ffusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really&c=E,1,bJK6eG7pRdZE7HXvxjakoGRlYzeO2sqOB6whhs0kHLnlO5a5-0R5olAtI6nD6th9x7swmyW9BIom9TGSnxOheZ5N4vnYYOlrKcdO5k22UtRVZMrzFSo29vBkjg,,&typo=1"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noreferrer"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really</a></span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class="">Other
                                                      interesting/relevant
                                                      links regarding
                                                      D-T and D-D
                                                      fusion...</span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class=""><a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noreferrer"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1</a></span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.energy.gov%2fscience%2fdoe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions&c=E,1,OQeZ4eIqEldZ9Yy6dVdmHJ1n8_TELmX4RzLcEPE6xPLUJnh42qFE9PhkDL_Vp177-_HidTb8v_JAEgderc1dXmiU1QkJLoFpnnkS-ARLuL0L8No,&typo=1"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noreferrer"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions</a>
                                                      <<a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.energy.gov%2fscience%2fdoe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions&c=E,1,oWM_h3U7NPiyhduzLgZpLu64qYzqtG3kY4NJAgXnIS68g7rl7-S0Sx-6up-6BGFFxM9KP32QJ16Rmu5LD4CLj9DLj9Hq2Mx78CznsSn4ppGuJW-Qf3AFj-9c5Ko,&typo=1"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noreferrer"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions</a>></span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fscience.jrank.org%2fpages%2f4732%2fNuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html&c=E,1,QPrI9T8WGsJ0E9c57KKQkRF5IRiaUIXl4jsyZRJzyYAtw0V30ym8NNFIIbXmXm9A65hpL8qtJ99t9e6Xf28Tj8dY_UBuKPUVVZHdwRK5pQ,,&typo=1"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noreferrer"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html</a>
                                                      <<a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fscience.jrank.org%2fpages%2f4732%2fNuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html&c=E,1,7zYeFzMI7Os8oelzDnXlCiySZ0j4sLLHbHDXW4jiXKr4ftoxYmyy0DUz7NScHrpkjArprm-QNMnb50FOSneRe8iXNJrb4szplQWjVfo62X9Yod0w&typo=1"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noreferrer"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html</a>></span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class=""><span
                                                      class="">On
                                                      12/13/22 4:36 PM,
                                                      glen wrote:</span><br
                                                      class="">
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class=""><span
                                                        class="">That's
                                                        why I asked. I
                                                        guess I'll
                                                        assume DT means
                                                        both deuterium
                                                        and tritium, not
                                                        just deuterium.
                                                        If you were
                                                        going to track
                                                        fuel use, you'd
                                                        track the rarer
                                                        part more
                                                        closely, right?</span><br
                                                        class="">
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class=""><span
                                                        class=""></span><br
                                                        class="">
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class=""><span
                                                        class="">On
                                                        12/13/22 09:22,
                                                        Frank Wimberly
                                                        wrote:</span><br
                                                        class="">
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">DT =
                                                          deuterium?</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class=""></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">---</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">Frank
                                                          C. Wimberly</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">140
                                                          Calle Ojo
                                                          Feliz,</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">Santa
                                                          Fe, NM 87505</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class=""></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">505
                                                          670-9918</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">Santa
                                                          Fe, NM</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class=""></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">On
                                                          Tue, Dec 13,
                                                          2022, 10:21 AM
                                                          glen <<a
                                                          href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                                                          moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">gepropella@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a
                                                          href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                                                          moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class=""></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">   
                                                          Awesome.
                                                          Thanks. I'm
                                                          still trying
                                                          to catch up
                                                          with the QC
                                                          Wormhole
                                                          kerfuffle. Who
                                                          knew Quanta
                                                          was so click
                                                          baity?</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class=""></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">   
                                                          What is "DT"?</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class=""></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">   
                                                          On 12/13/22
                                                          09:02, Marcus
                                                          Daniels wrote:</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > In case
                                                          no one wanted
                                                          to get up at
                                                          7:00am to
                                                          watch DOE
                                                          administrators
                                                          talk:</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 1.
                                                          Controlling
                                                          the laser in
                                                          space and time
                                                          was important
                                                          for
                                                          maintaining
                                                          symmetry. 
                                                          Timing
                                                          precision of
                                                          25e-12 secs
                                                          and laser
                                                          spatial
                                                          precision of
                                                          5e-12 meter
                                                          were needed.
                                                          This was
                                                          thought to be
                                                          the main
                                                          explanation
                                                          for the
                                                          achievement.</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 2. 8%
                                                          more power on
                                                          the laser this
                                                          time</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 3. x-ray
                                                          tomography is
                                                          used to find
                                                          flaws in the
                                                          capsules. 
                                                          Developing
                                                          software to do
                                                          the counting.</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 4. They
                                                          have ongoing
                                                          efforts to
                                                          study the
                                                          fabrication
                                                          systems and
                                                          their
                                                          components
                                                          (done in
                                                          Germany) to
                                                          find
                                                          idiosyncrasies
                                                          of each.</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 5. Laser
                                                          technology
                                                          improvements
                                                          since NIF was
                                                          built which
                                                          are 20% more
                                                          efficient.</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 6. Target
                                                          cost is from
                                                          labor, and it
                                                          takes 7 months
                                                          each</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 7. 4% of
                                                          DT is burned
                                                          in a shot</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 8.
                                                          Machine
                                                          learning ties
                                                          together
                                                          radiation
                                                          hydrodynamics
                                                          and
                                                          experimental
                                                          data.   (It
                                                          sounded
                                                          preliminary.)</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 9. The
                                                          (successful)
                                                          capsule had
                                                          more defects
                                                          than previous
                                                          experiments.  
                                                          However,
                                                          previous
                                                          experiments
                                                          did show
                                                          benefits from
                                                          capsule
                                                          quality.</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 10. 15%
                                                          of experiments
                                                          are indirect
                                                          drive of this
                                                          kind, 15% of
                                                          experiments
                                                          are other
                                                          approaches to
                                                          ignition.  The
                                                          rest are
                                                          weapons and
                                                          materials
                                                          characterization.</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          ></span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite" class="">
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
                                                      class="">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        type="cite"
                                                        class=""><span
                                                          class="">    
                                                          > 11.
                                                          Anomalous
                                                          laser
                                                          directional
                                                          control were
                                                          problems in
                                                          the summer
                                                          runs.   Fixed
                                                          that.</span><br
                                                          class="">
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                  <span class=""></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class="">-- </span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class="">ꙮ Mɥǝu
                                                    ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ
                                                    ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ</span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class=""></span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class="">-. ---
                                                    - / ...- .- .-.. ..
                                                    -.. / -- --- .-. ...
                                                    . / -.-. --- -.. .</span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class="">FRIAM
                                                    Applied Complexity
                                                    Group listserv</span><br
                                                    class="">
                                                  <span class="">Fridays
                                                    9a-12p Friday St.
                                                    Johns Cafe   /
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                    <pre class="x_moz-quote-pre">-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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</pre>
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