<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><b><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Sadly, there are some hidden elements to all that techno-optimism.</font></b><br><br>Yes, sadly the world is unequal and those at the bottom of the economic ladder just don't get a good deal.<br><br>On the positive side, looking back at the history of mankind there is evidence that it is now better to live than ever in the past for the large majority of humankind. This is true even though it is the sad truth that it's very far from perfect; human suffering is a reality, Glen's comment is sad but true.<br><br>The question of course is whether it will continue to go better?<br><br>It's just impossible to know the future. One person can believe it'll go better in the future, another that it'll be worse, each with tons of good arguments.<br><br>I for one, embrace the optimism of Sam Altman, just for completeness I repeat his quote and give the reference again.<br><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Montserrat,sans-serif;font-size:12px">"Intelligence and energy have been the fundamental limiters towards most things we want. A future where these are not the limiting reagents will be radically different, and can be amazingly better."<br></span>Taken from <a href="https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms" target="_blank">https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms</a> : <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Montserrat,sans-serif;font-size:12px"> <br><br>In conclusion, yes I agree with Glen that there are sadly hidden elements to all the techno-optimism. but this does not dampen my enthusiasm for the future triggered by abundant intelligence and energy.</span></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 21:08, glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Sadly, there are some hidden elements to all that techno-optimism. E.g.<br>
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<a href="https://nitter.cz/billyperrigo/status/1615682180201447425#m" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nitter.cz/billyperrigo/status/1615682180201447425#m</a><br>
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On 1/18/23 00:40, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:<br>
> I totally agree that realizable behavior is what matters.<br>
> <br>
> The elephant in the room is whether AI (and robotics of course) will (not to replace but to) be able to do better than humans in all respects, including come up with creative solutions to not only the world's most pressing problems but also small creative things like writing poems, and then to do the mental and physical tasks required to provide goods and services to all in the world,<br>
> <br>
> Sam Altman said there are two things that will shape our future; intelligence and energy. If we have real abundant intelligence and energy, the world will be very different indeed.<br>
> <br>
> To quote Sam Altmen at <a href="https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms</a> <<a href="https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms</a>> :<br>
> <br>
> "intelligence and energy have been the fundamental limiters towards most things we want. A future where these are not the limiting reagents will be radically different, and can be amazingly better."<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 03:06, Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Definitions are all fine and good, but realizable behavior is what matters. Analog computers will have imperfect behavior, and there will be leakage between components. A large network of transistors or neurons are sufficiently similar for my purposes. The unrolling would be inside a skull, so somewhat isolated from interference.<br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>> On Behalf Of glen<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 2:11 PM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] NickC channels DaveW<br>
> <br>
> I don't quite grok that. A crisp definition of recursion implies no interaction with the outside world, right? If you can tolerate the ambiguity in that statement, the artifacts laying about from an unrolled recursion might be seen and used by outsiders. That's not to say a trespasser can't have some sophisticated intrusion technique. But unrolled seems more "open" to family, friends, and the occasional acquaintance.<br>
> <br>
> On 1/17/23 13:37, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
> > I probably didn't pay enough attention to the thread some time ago on serialization, but to me recursion is hard to distinguish from an unrolling of recursion.<br>
> <br>
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