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<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ee83206b-8dc7-c6af-2c3c-3f83dcc6b682@swcp.com">
<blockquote type="cite">Or ... or ... they counter the
conventional wisdom that *humans* generalize their learning or
reasoning beyond text. We are the OG bots.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>I am fascinated by the "bootstrapping" that semantic/syntactic
recursion seems to imply. I'm looking for examples in these LLMs
where this is exposed. It seems that at the level of
sophistication GPT4 is responding, this must be common?</p>
<p>It feels as if there might be a surprisingly robust "house of
cards" built entirely of lexical units which are stacked very
cleverly together (in an echo of the patterns of the artificial
neural net connections made while training an LLM?) and you are
suggesting that this is roughly what human learning/understanding
looks like as well... <br>
</p>
<p>Lakoff and Nunez's "embodiment" arguements seem to suggest that
even if there may be some elaborate card-stacking going on, there
is a foundation (in human understanding) of
sensorial/sentient/qualia experiences they ground out upon/in?</p>
<p>If we tentatively accept this account, then I wonder what LLMs
are grounded in? It would seem maybe "hallucinations" of
sensorial experiences?</p>
<p>So: from the horse's mouth:<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
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<div class="min-h-[20px] flex flex-col items-start gap-4 whitespace-pre-wrap" style="border: 0px solid rgb(217, 217, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x:0; --tw-border-spacing-y:0; --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness:proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored:0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; display: flex; min-height: 20px; flex-direction: column; align-items: flex-start; gap: 1rem; white-space: pre-wrap;">what are LLMs' structures grounded out in?</div>
</div>
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flex-direction: column; gap: 0.75rem;">
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flex-direction: column; gap: 0.75rem;">
<div class="min-h-[20px] flex flex-col items-start gap-4 whitespace-pre-wrap" style="border: 0px solid rgb(217, 217, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x:0; --tw-border-spacing-y:0; --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness:proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored:0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; display: flex; min-height: 20px; flex-direction: column; align-items: flex-start; gap: 1rem; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div class="markdown prose w-full break-words dark:prose-invert light" style="border: 0px solid rgb(217, 217, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x:0; --tw-border-spacing-y:0; --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness:proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored:0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; color: var(--tw-prose-body); max-width: none; --tw-prose-body:#374151; --tw-prose-headings:#111827; --tw-prose-lead:#4b5563; --tw-prose-links:#111827; --tw-prose-bold:#111827; --tw-prose-counters:#6b7280; --tw-prose-bullets:#d1d5db; --tw-prose-hr:#e5e7eb; --tw-prose-quotes:#111827; --tw-prose-quote-borders:#e5e7eb; --tw-prose-captions:#6b7280; --tw-prose-code:#111827; --tw-prose-pre-code:#e5e7eb; --tw-prose-pre-bg:#1f2937; --tw-prose-th-borders:#d1d5db; --tw-prose-td-borders:#e5e7eb; --tw-prose-invert-body:#d1d5db; --tw-prose-invert-headings:#fff; --tw-prose-invert-lead:#9ca3af; --tw-prose-invert-links:#fff; --tw-prose-invert-bold:#fff; --tw-prose-invert-counters:#9ca3af; --tw-prose-invert-bullets:#4b5563; --tw-prose-invert-hr:#374151; --tw-prose-invert-quotes:#f3f4f6; --tw-prose-invert-quote-borders:#374151; --tw-prose-invert-captions:#9ca3af; --tw-prose-invert-code:#fff; --tw-prose-invert-pre-code:#d1d5db; --tw-prose-invert-pre-bg:rgba(0,0,0,0.5); --tw-prose-invert-th-borders:#4b5563; --tw-prose-invert-td-borders:#374151; font-size: 1rem; line-height: 1.75; width: 653px; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><p style="border: 0px solid rgb(217, 217, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x:0; --tw-border-spacing-y:0; --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness:proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored:0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; margin: 0px 0px 1.25em;">Language models such as LLMs (large language models) are grounded in vast amounts of textual data that they are trained on. The structures of LLMs are derived from the statistical patterns and regularities that are present in the data. These patterns are then encoded as learned parameters in the neural network architecture of the language model.</p><p style="border: 0px solid rgb(217, 217, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x:0; --tw-border-spacing-y:0; --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness:proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored:0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; margin: 1.25em 0px;">In other words, the structures of LLMs are not explicitly programmed by humans, but are instead learned from large datasets of natural language text. This allows LLMs to capture the complex and subtle patterns of natural language, including its syntax, semantics, and pragmatics.</p><p style="border: 0px solid rgb(217, 217, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x:0; --tw-border-spacing-y:0; --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness:proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow:0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored:0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; margin: 1.25em 0px 0px;">While LLMs are not directly grounded in embodied experiences, as in the theory of embodied mind, they do reflect the linguistic and cultural context in which the data they are trained on was produced. </p></div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ee83206b-8dc7-c6af-2c3c-3f83dcc6b682@swcp.com">
</blockquote>
<p></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ee83206b-8dc7-c6af-2c3c-3f83dcc6b682@swcp.com">
<br>
I do really appreciate this duality/tension: I think you were
the first to alert me to this a few thousand messages back (before
LLMs/GPT talk, etc erupted here) though I vaguely remember Marcus
making a (qualitatively) similar statement as well. I think his
comment was about whether human (early childhood in particular)
was anything different from "emulation".
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<br>
On 4/7/23 09:15, Steve Smith wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> These findings counter the
conventional wisdom that LLMs are merely statistical next-word
predictors and can\u2019t generalize their learning or reasoning
beyond text.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
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