<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">I have just started reading <b><i>The Earth Transformed</i></b> by Peter Frankorian. It seems to have some relevance to this discussion as one of its themese is how multiple climate change events in the past shaped human adaptation and evolution. Might provide some interesting ground for what kind of changes might result from current crises. Big caveat, of course, is the lack of predictability when it comes to complex systems<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">On Wed, May 31, 2023, at 9:02 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Yeah. It’s a good objection, because I don’t know either.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> I know what sources I am feeding off of. They are all this <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> popular-science writing, and who knows its status; maybe it becomes the <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> urban legend of “intellectual” spectators?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> There is the whole follow-on from the Siberian silver foxes, and the <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> stylized facts of piebald coloring, round ears, and chattiness as the <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> mark of epigenetically altered hormonal profiles among domesticates. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Not sure how you do that with primates that already have short ears and <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> limited hair, but there’s always the chattiness.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Some of it, I think, came from reading Barry Lopez’s book Of Wolves and <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Men as a young kid (a book that at the time, I figured was just a <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> surplus on the used-book tables, but which I have seen referred to <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> repeatedly over the years), and then some decades later, some other <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> book-length thing about social intelligence among dog breeds and their <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> relations to wolves. The broad thesis being that adult wolves don’t <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> have a sense of humor. People see wolf pups that look like dog pups <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> and think “I’ll raise one of those”, and then suddenly the transition <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> to adulthood happens, and all this “relation” they thought they had <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> vanishes as the wolf becomes the adult wild animal, and they realize <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> they are in completely over their heads.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Factoid upon factoid, somewhere in this I fit the thing my boss <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> mentioned a couple of years ago, about a Nature (?) article reporting <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> that one of the mutations systematically separating dogs from the grey <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> wolf was in the gene that is cognate to the one that mutates to cause <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Williams Syndrome in people. I mentioned that on the list maybe a year <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> ago, but have’t gone to find the link myself.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> The thing about vigilance as an important defining dimension of the <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> PTSD phenotype comes from the Jonathan Shay book I mentioned, and <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> probably also Tim OBrien’s The Things They Carried, though not <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> emphasized there the same way in its own name. Seems to correlate with <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> being surprisingly strong while being surprisingly skinny and not <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> needing to eat much (or having an interest I eating much), and with a <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> portfolio of health problems that shorten lifespan. Shay thinks that <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> hypervigilance, as a requirement for survival, is one of the drivers of <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> PTSD and not only a symptom; the other major one being betrayal within <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> what was supposed to have functioned as the social in-group and support <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> structure. That was the connection to the SFI talk on “Living with <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Distrust” as a locked-in low-benefit social state (anthropological <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> study of a small village I Romania).<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Are wild animals like that? I do have that impression, with about as <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> much depth as my other impressions. Getting close to a wild fox seems <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> very very hard. Raccoons too. I think of big male domestic cats as <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> being pretty menacing (having been attacked by one in the dark one <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> time), but the reputation is that faced with a fox or a raccoon, they <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> don’t have a chance of surviving. Makes me imagine that bobcats look <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> like slightly enlarged big domestic cats, but probably aren’t like them <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> very much at all.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> I was having this discussion with someone once, sitting outside a small <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> artificial lake in a little forest glen, watching the birds fight <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> continuously with each other in every pairing over territory. Thinking <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> “These animals are really willing to make an effort.”<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Eric<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> On May 30, 2023, at 4:27 PM, glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> "Somehow not the domain of peace and spirituality that I think first-worlders like to project onto first-nationers, and which might even be true for the first-nationers, since they are also from a milder time by a lot than a large extinction."<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> IDK, man. Are wild animals different from us in any significant way? Are they actually never lazy, never unvigilant, etc? Or, perhaps, is the attribution of vigilance (and hence never unvigilance) an illusion born of othering? A standard whipping post for me is this "Are you a cat person or a dog person" cocktail party ice breaker. Admitting the false dichotomy, dog people tend to think of cats as non-social, selfish, blahblah. Cat people tend to think of dogs as slobbery, vapid, etc. It's complete nonsense born of arbitrary delusions.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> But of course, there is something to be said of the built environment. It would be difficult for a human reared in a city to navigate the Mongolian desert. But is that difference any greater than plopping a city dweller 13,000 years in the past? Are office or political games significantly different from the "games" wild babies play under the vigilant eye of their den mother? Yeah, I know. I'm putting too much weight on "significant". Obviously, everything's different from everything else. (I regret not being able to engage more with Jon's exploration of Deleuze.) But my conservatism tells me that objective othering would rely solely on coherent traits, fingers vs. claws, hair vs. fur, cortex or no cortex. A human now would be insignificantly different from a human then. If the apocalypse doesn't transform us into something other than human, whatever is rebuilt will be strikingly similar to what we have now.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> On 5/28/23 11:29, David Eric Smith wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> I’m not sure elitist, Steve,<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> That’s one bad habit that I don’t think they have.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> More along the line, I suspect, of “out of ordinary people who mostly get mowed down, here and there will be some pockets that started to pay attention and got lucky enough to have time to make a culture of it, of sorts”<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> Wes Jackson likes the term “saving remnant”.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> I happen to be in Sweden just now, and it has me thinking about sci-fi futures, ad also Nietzsche’s “last man” etc.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> Also on this theme is the very interesting SFI lecture “living with distrust”, which signals things I have seen (Ernst Fehr?) and others say about the Ache and Machiguenga and other groups.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> What do I think the saving remnant will be? I imagine people who lost all the epigenetic marks associated with domestication, and took on hormone profiles more like chimps. Or “born this way” to PTSD.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> Take any wild animal, and contemplate just how _different_ they are from us. Never lazy. Never un-vigilant. Or read Jonathan Shay’s Achilles in Vietnam.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> Suppose all the people who remain have survived only because they are that. Unwind not only the past 70 years of developed-world tranquility, but the history of human domestication since at least the younger dryas. Maybe a lot longer ago than that.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> What is it like to have your Time Machine and go spend a weekend with those guys in their home? Jared Diamond would be jealous. Somehow not the domain of peace and spirituality that I think first-worlders like to project onto first-nationers, and which might even be true for the first-nationers, since they are also from a milder time by a lot than a large extinction.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> I wish I had the imagination to be interesting. It would be invigorating to read someone who could really imagine a different world, and a different us, and take you there in some convincing way.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>> Eric<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> On May 28, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> Eric -<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> Thanks for passing this link around here. I suspect most here have the background to appreciate/parse this < insert Steve Martin's "hear me now and believe me later" SNL skit> but maybe not an "affordance to know" the more acute implications of it.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> One of the things I find (most) interesting in the RGND rhetoric is their (appropriate) invocation of Complex Systems ideas as well as the convergence of human consciousness (mostly from a neuroscience perspective) and the complex systems which are the techno-social-economic systems that are our energo-materio culture which is the engine that is spinning the earth-systems out of the orbits they were in pre-anthropocene (150 or 15000 years?)<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> I may be reading them wrong, but this feels like "yet another" elitist trope, this time on (nanotech?) steroids:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> /In short, we think it’s probable that MTI civilization will collapse catastrophically but that pockets of people with a rising level of consciousness and awareness of our eco-predicament will survive and act as the seeders of a new world.///<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> I particularly appreciated your pithy observation:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> /But here, we can maybe somehow combine the capitalists and the GNDers. The concentration in the rate and provision of services, and of the ownership of the proceeds by whoever the rulers turn out to be, leaves the rest of us free to die off in peace, and not carry on the guilt of being ecological criminals. It’s a win-win./<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> /<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> /<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> Thanks to Sabine (as Cassandra) and Eric and Marcus for raising this to my attention... queing it up to provide background for my read lead me to her Collective Stupidity episode <<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng</a>>.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> I am left wondering if/how LLMs reflect/relate to Wisdom/Stupidity of Crowds? Seems like LLMs are literally the encapsulation of collective knowledge.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> Sabine's invocation of "Information Cascades" was interesting in contrast with entrainment and canalization. Will LLMs in some way help us avoid these short-circuits/shunts? Or aggravate them?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> - Steve<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>> On 5/28/23 2:46 AM, David Eric Smith wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> This comment leads to an interesting angle that I haven’t heard.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> Bill Rees, whom you can find here:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <d8f080_78c1ab7b00b045ff9bbc01a273b00173~mv2.jpg><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> Home | The REAL Green New Deal Project <<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.realgnd.org%2f&c=E,1,s4xLfGynLIjkrUt9NbN7gTjzG9OOoaJe64vBX3p4819H6jFz9AJSSe-qv9yDN4qwXF8gSayAREexT0axFnHBthp_EmNYm91Bl5Edsist24GG&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.realgnd.org%2f&c=E,1,s4xLfGynLIjkrUt9NbN7gTjzG9OOoaJe64vBX3p4819H6jFz9AJSSe-qv9yDN4qwXF8gSayAREexT0axFnHBthp_EmNYm91Bl5Edsist24GG&typo=1</a>><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2frealgnd.org&c=E,1,o-jD2Pd3Y2XABKHYvdjInzR4x3ep6uYbwcsXC-DFCaj9q_hjiE7VWqV3KWC2P3ekWNDW6V-PTSH_3BQuFildW1lxnqFkgyRufuDcSLp4&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2frealgnd.org&c=E,1,o-jD2Pd3Y2XABKHYvdjInzR4x3ep6uYbwcsXC-DFCaj9q_hjiE7VWqV3KWC2P3ekWNDW6V-PTSH_3BQuFildW1lxnqFkgyRufuDcSLp4&typo=1</a> <<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.realgnd.org%2f&c=E,1,mLU-zLi9KLRqdV1LCSsLf4xAqRPWhhLSvzK0ajNxs-Bl31f_tDo3AuTO8FftJArhBwcEpVAtKd58f8Nn8HWN8QWG-poN1K4CsHllfzctVyYuePFkCMo,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.realgnd.org%2f&c=E,1,mLU-zLi9KLRqdV1LCSsLf4xAqRPWhhLSvzK0ajNxs-Bl31f_tDo3AuTO8FftJArhBwcEpVAtKd58f8Nn8HWN8QWG-poN1K4CsHllfzctVyYuePFkCMo,&typo=1</a>><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.realgnd.org%2f&c=E,1,ui2uypSQ13uMOEz7hzM4YulUakJ2dduLZEW4fMauG5gh85fLSDmPC9mu3saCYT5TA1zSp3f4E7hrdi7Iu-Yxbt88L44PzeI9TxTtDQBN6mNsS-h87nJxhCE,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.realgnd.org%2f&c=E,1,ui2uypSQ13uMOEz7hzM4YulUakJ2dduLZEW4fMauG5gh85fLSDmPC9mu3saCYT5TA1zSp3f4E7hrdi7Iu-Yxbt88L44PzeI9TxTtDQBN6mNsS-h87nJxhCE,&typo=1</a>><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> writes numerous papers about how 90% of us need to die, or that this is just what will happen whether we articulate such a need or not. I won’t go so far as to say that Rees “wants” 90% of us to die (see the smiling grandfatherly bearded ecologist photo in the pages), but after a long life of writing Jeremiads and not seeing the world change its ways, he seems so defeated by frustration that I read in him a deep and now constitutive misanthropy.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> (btw: the Real GND website is best read while listening to Sabine Hossenfelder’s song My Name is Cassandra, Prophet of the Dark. Thanks Marcus for making me aware of her oeuvre, I had never noticed it.)<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> Usually, the problem with the bait-and-switch of new technologies is “look, it will save so much labor we will all have leisure to be creative while still having comfortable levels of consumption”, when what actually happens is classic Marx: the few who can enclose the new services, either because they are exclusive or just through market-gravitational effects, now own an even larger sector of all income, and the expanding remnant is made increasingly desperate.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> But here, we can maybe somehow combine the capitalists and the GNDers. The concentration in the rate and provision of services, and of the ownership of the proceeds by whoever the rulers turn out to be, leaves the rest of us free to die off in peace, and not carry on the guilt of being ecological criminals. It’s a win-win.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> I worry that that story is probably incomplete, and maybe thereby wrong. The concentrating advantage of advanced autocomplete services might only be a transient while our current stock of primary knowledge is “enough” and “not fully mined”. Maybe all the inefficient activity of ordinary people is somehow a diffuse source that actually expands the primary base. Certainly my impression of ecological organizations is that, below any small population of charismatic megafauna, there is a whole pyramid that goes down to an astonishing number of nitrogen-fixer bacteria.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> But I don’t know, what organizations are necessary by physical, mathematical, and biological laws, and which might be possible that we just haven’t ever seen before.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> Eric<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> On May 28, 2023, at 7:27 AM, Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> Looking at the recent rapid release of open source LLM systems like Falcon and Mosaic ML, Llama, etc. there is more going-on than titans like Microsoft, and Google battling it out with giant closed systems. These are human know-how crystalized into open-source deliverables. Why not share knowledge representations in this way? Consider the cost and time that goes into medical or legal training. Sure the energy requirements of digital systems are high, but so are the energy expenditures of a planet full of humans.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> *From:*Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> on behalf of Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> *Sent:*Friday, May 26, 2023 2:06 PM<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> *To:*<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> *Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] crackpots and privilege<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> My grandsons' girlfriends (twenty-somethings) say that they think babies are disgusting. I hope they change their minds. In any case, what does a shortage of babies have to do with AI?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> Babies *are* (can be) disgusting, but same for puppies, kitties, and garden-soil from the right (wrong) perspective!<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> Maybe the point is "nobody left for the AI overlords to lord over" ?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> I think the key is "existential threat"... I didn't look for Schmidt's statement anywhere, so I'm just speculating that maybe he's doing a mild echo of Musk's idea that a collapsing (first) world population is somehow a *bigger* existential threat?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> With my techhead hat on I am inclined to imagine that AI will help me (well, not ME anymore, but people vaguely like who I once thought I was or wanted to be) solve micro-techonomic problems like the ones that lead to Teflon(tm) and Velcro(tm) and higher density/faster-charge EV batteries, and higher density/dynamic range pixel-displays, and neural lace to wire (grow?) into my brain/ganglia, and microbes that can convert moon/mars-dust to Soylent/Huel/Water/??? etc.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> My PsychoHistory hatted self (Asimov - Foundation <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)</a>>and thenon-fictional variant <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory#:~:text=Psychohistory%20is%20an%20amalgam%20of,stated%20intention%20and%20actual%20behavior">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory#:~:text=Psychohistory%20is%20an%20amalgam%20of,stated%20intention%20and%20actual%20behavior</a>.>) is inclined to imagine that AI *can* help with the "big problems", the ones nominally too large, too interdisciplinarian, too obtuse, too "wycked" (In Complexity Science jargon), possibly too counter-intuitive for most (any?) human or group of humans to grasp.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> My Ned Ludd (very tight by definition?) hat has me thinking more down the rabbit holes of worst-case scenarios where all the arrogant, narcissistic @$$h0ii3z of the world (starting at the top with those whose names start with Pu Tr Be Zu Mu(r/s) Ne De ... and staggering down the hierarchy of potency and scope to most of us here most of the time) think they "know what is best" and put their resources to using the AI lever to "make it so"...<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> Even (especially) me, I constantly imagine that "if they made ME King" (or to the point, if *I* was the/wormtongue/in the AI Overlord's ear) that I would "make the world safe and happy for everyone, ever after with no unintended consequences or unpleasant side effects".<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> One *might* guess that the smartest thinkers in the most grounded, thoughtful, gentle think-tanks (e.g. in a Tibetan Lamasary or the "Club of Rome" or SIPRI or CESR or the Justice League of America or the people who task "jewish space lasers" or ??? ) would be practicing their AI-whispering skills right now. Maybe tasking Marcus' Quantum Computer with "the hard problem of universal consciousness"?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>> An up-to-date version of Asimov's9 Billion Names of God <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Billion_Names_of_God">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Billion_Names_of_God</a>>?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> ---<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> 505 670-9918<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> On Thu, May 25, 2023, 12:48 PM Roger Critchlow <<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org">rec@elf.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org">rec@elf.org</a>>> wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> Google news decided to surface an article from Fortune today. It's headlined "Society's refusal to have enough babies is what will save it from the existential threat of A. I., Eric Schmidt says". The headline is accompanied by a very serious head shot of Eric. Nice try, Google, but you're not sucking me down that rabbit hole.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> Meanwhile, someone apparently read my mind about the rationality of disaster prepping and wrote an epic novel about it 40 years ago in Catalan. The Garden of the Seven Twilights by Miquel de Palol is available in English translation and as an ebook <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fonoverdrive.com&c=E,1,i24jZ6qaXt_S4iwj4KlMCQL6JG0XDon8-oMTJAP7ZXZqRuQYl4sOgliRqIdLRRoLtoiRQ33fBCUhyBXnVUXfLmSYt7wqI61-Pu3hh6TNpJiYDl91xrw,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fonoverdrive.com&c=E,1,i24jZ6qaXt_S4iwj4KlMCQL6JG0XDon8-oMTJAP7ZXZqRuQYl4sOgliRqIdLRRoLtoiRQ33fBCUhyBXnVUXfLmSYt7wqI61-Pu3hh6TNpJiYDl91xrw,&typo=1</a> <<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2foverdrive.com&c=E,1,qiLuQHPdYM-73PUnxLjrSTzI76V8rfL6yb0_zHcdufFpFa1_kCTZkOyfYIh_N_0ysaWtjxXmwlL7kj8mmwGK2wfSP_01M-8QKT_yUEwBhHUL1Wuk-x_ACQBsspQ,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2foverdrive.com&c=E,1,qiLuQHPdYM-73PUnxLjrSTzI76V8rfL6yb0_zHcdufFpFa1_kCTZkOyfYIh_N_0ysaWtjxXmwlL7kj8mmwGK2wfSP_01M-8QKT_yUEwBhHUL1Wuk-x_ACQBsspQ,&typo=1</a>>at your local library. The narrator crosses refugee swamped Barcelona to check on his mom and gets sent off by her to a McMansion'ed medieval monastery high in the Pyrenees where the elite are amusing themselves with stories while awaiting the resolution of the first war of entertainment. Lots of stories about themselves and their friends and acquaintances.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>>>>>>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> -- <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,P5lsJHS8pxCFL0D21L5NzikR5QLjsjfH7FYTAy9Ssx4g0syaUDU8s2wD66gLAP_E2kOW3g1m9Pdi_sCogxxlFBYRbe4cAUMq8_attORbYBxjFdyClw,,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,P5lsJHS8pxCFL0D21L5NzikR5QLjsjfH7FYTAy9Ssx4g0syaUDU8s2wD66gLAP_E2kOW3g1m9Pdi_sCogxxlFBYRbe4cAUMq8_attORbYBxjFdyClw,,&typo=1</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> to (un)subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,7Vl6_FysN6huZwx0VOLwm3gozb9Sve8J8Vx8kDlXU_9S4vr2jdFCmIe5XqLGXOWUzbscufYKGfIxyj2YDfdvZQiWNy6tT9PXbTcm8JCwwp5vOoco_MKLCmq6JOGT&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,7Vl6_FysN6huZwx0VOLwm3gozb9Sve8J8Vx8kDlXU_9S4vr2jdFCmIe5XqLGXOWUzbscufYKGfIxyj2YDfdvZQiWNy6tT9PXbTcm8JCwwp5vOoco_MKLCmq6JOGT&typo=1</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,zwSy1xCLLhhpVvdXfLUUrFo6zZXv8vRzZ09bWnJ4UloBhwKr1Km5L3xf_lro3YO0iuPqNOsUqXAfNxr47uCW1nHt6naevBAty6nljgH0d0TwfA,,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,zwSy1xCLLhhpVvdXfLUUrFo6zZXv8vRzZ09bWnJ4UloBhwKr1Km5L3xf_lro3YO0iuPqNOsUqXAfNxr47uCW1nHt6naevBAty6nljgH0d0TwfA,,&typo=1</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Z8_lhwKfx1t3zcL79Ci2A-ls8j1laUBW9mpxtkC_icg0eU9NsivUWMkN6Oe8Wa00j9kvP6BDxhZy8e3ipt5TndrMkaT1eJlZboiruuH1VPcZxNDsIw,,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Z8_lhwKfx1t3zcL79Ci2A-ls8j1laUBW9mpxtkC_icg0eU9NsivUWMkN6Oe8Wa00j9kvP6BDxhZy8e3ipt5TndrMkaT1eJlZboiruuH1VPcZxNDsIw,,&typo=1</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> archives: 5/2017 thru present <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div></body></html>