<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body dir="auto">
There is something objectionable about prompts. Like a therapist extracting subconscious recovered memories from childhood PTSD. <br>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Aug 5, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Stephen Guerin <stephen.guerin@simtable.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">The explicit times were part of the prompts.
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">we actually did these experiments this summer with Steve Cox's students at Northern New Mexico College for an NSF Geo Pathways grant. I put in the times from my memory of what was in the whiteboard as 6 teams reported their results. Some used
2 liter bottles, other smaller water bottles<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:27 AM Roger Critchlow <<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org">rec@elf.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Who made up the exact timings?
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">-- rec --</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:10 AM Stephen Guerin <<a href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">stephen.guerin@simtable.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">There were 10 or so intermediate prompts to drive chatGPT to that lab report.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 8:52 AM Stephen Guerin <<a href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">stephen.guerin@simtable.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">chatGPT, you are a graduate student at c the Santa Fe Institute's complex systems summer school, write a lab report on your experiences with the tornado in a tube.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">**Student Lab Report**</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">**Title:** Insights into Fluid Dynamics and Symmetry Breaking via 'Tornado in a Tube'</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">**Objective:** This lab aimed to explore the critical principles of fluid dynamics, including the principle of least action, surface tension, broken symmetry, and their impacts on fluid behavior, using the 'tornado in a tube' experiment. We
introduced variations in the system's orientation, structural changes, and the application of external forces to further understand these principles.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">**Method:** Our setup included two 2-liter clear plastic bottles, water, a tube connector, and glitter for fluid visualization. We followed the procedure outlined in the lab exercise, with additional testing for different system orientations,
external force applications, and structural modifications.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">**Findings:**</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">1. **Role of Surface Tension in Vertical Setup:** With the bottles vertically aligned, surface tension at the bottleneck significantly slowed the drainage process. This resulted in a droplet-like flow and a drainage time of 8 minutes and 12
seconds.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">2. **Influence of External Forces:** By applying an external force to the system—squeezing the top bottle in pulses—we managed to overcome the surface tension resistance. This modified approach expedited the drainage process to a time of 1 minute
and 47 seconds.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">3. **Impact of System Orientation:** We then experimented with tilting the bottles to different angles. A tilt of approximately 42 degrees provided the quickest drainage time—2 minutes and 32 seconds. The tilt balanced the inflow of air and
the outflow of water, thereby managing the effects of surface tension effectively.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">4. **Vortex Formation, Symmetry Breaking and the Principle of Least Action:** In the next step, we swirled the top bottle to form a vortex, leading to a broken symmetry in angular momentum. This energy-efficient pathway embodied the principle
of least action, allowing the water to overcome the surface tension barrier and to drain in an impressive 18 seconds. This broken symmetry enabled the efficient dissipation of the gradient between the bottles.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">5. **Effects of Structural Changes:** Our final test involved an open-ended tube setup. Here, we observed noticeable changes in fluid behavior. The vortex's efficiency in gradient dissipation decreased due to interference from the ambient pressure,
indicating the crucial role structural features play in fluid dynamics.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">**Conclusion:** The 'tornado in a tube' experiment, complemented by our additional tests, provided a comprehensive understanding of fluid dynamics principles. The observed differences in drainage times highlighted the significant impact of system
orientation, the principle of least action, surface tension, and broken symmetry on fluid dynamics. These findings offer deeper insights into fluid behavior and are applicable to a range of real-world phenomena, from weather systems to biological processes.</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 8:05 PM Nicholas Thompson <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Ok, folks. I apologize to those of you who are fed up with my kitchen physics, but there has been a bit of a development in that saga that I want to share with those few of you who aren’t.<span>
</span>Years ago, I came home for the summer with my ears ringing with the notion that structures are formed to dissipate gradients.<span>
</span>Please set aside any teleological implications of this statement and ask the question in its most neutral form:<span>
</span>Do the structures that sometimes form as a gradient is dissipated dissipate it more quickly once the structure has been formed.<span>
</span>Or, as I came to interpret it, does facilitating the formation of such a structure speed the dissipation of the gradient.
<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
I was the family dishwasher at the time.<span> </span>I deplore washing dishes, but I love messing around with warm soapy water, and so I started to experiment with starting the vortex that forms
<i>after</i> you pull the plug out of the sink <i>before</i> I pulled the plug.<span>
</span>Quickly, it became apparent that facilitating the vortex formation in that way GREATLY SLOWED the emptying of the sink.<span>
</span>Triumphally, I wrote Steve on Friam only to be greeted by a torrent of scatological raillery, so intense and so persistent from the fluid dynamicists on the list that I never heard from Steve. The burden of this raillery I have distilled into Roberts
Rule of Order:<span> </span><span style="font-family:Algerian">DEFROCKED ENGLISH MAJORS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TALK about fluid dynamics</span>.<span>
</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
More than a decade later, I am back in Massachusetts, washing dishes at the same sink, and the question occurred to me again. I raised it finally with Steve, and he generously sent me the little two-bottle toy, where you flip it over and the water drains from
one bottle to the other. <span> </span>As it drains, it forms a vortex in the draining bottle, and the occurrence of the vortex greatly
<i>increases</i> the speed of the draining.<span> </span>Finally, if one facilitates the formation of the vortex by rotating the bottle a bit, the bottle drains even more quickly.<span>
</span>Thus, the result is entirely different, especially if one substitutes two large pop bottles for the ones included in the kit.<span>
</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
At the risk of bringing another round of raillery down on my head, I opine that the difference has something to do with the fact that two bottle situation is more of a closed system than the sink situation.<span>
</span>The test would be to saw the bottom off both bottles and demonstrate that vortex-formation now slows drainage.<span>
</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
It will be a while, though, before I can get two extra bottles to destroy.<span>
</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Does anybody care to make a prediction and offer an explanation why the results should be different in the two cases?<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Nick <span></span></p>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span>-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .</span><br>
<span>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br>
<span>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</span><br>
<span>to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span><br>
<span>FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span><br>
<span>archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</span><br>
<span> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>