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<p>Fascinating (to me) how water (the H20 molecule, it's phases,
mechanical modes, radiative coupling, chemistry, aggregate
thermodynamics, etc) is central to such a widely distributed
space-time regime of morpho and teleodynamic phenomena spanning
(sub)cellular to organism to super-organism (herds, schools,
forests, prairies, ecosystems) and also planetary
hydro/cryo/biosphere scale weather/climate/???. <br>
</p>
<p>There may be evidence of water being significantly relevant to
solar/planetary and even galactic scales but at least *up-to*
planetary scales and down to "molecular scales", indeed "Water is
WEIRD" as Hywel reminds us through Nick. Is this merely another
name for our ignorance or is it acutely anthropocentric because it
defines the Goldilocks region our form of consciousness/life
emerged/exists/thrives in? Water is weirdly relevant to
human-scale interests?<br>
</p>
<p>Spanning 19 decimal orders of magnitude, from 10^-10m to 10^9
meters ?</p>
<p>And in time? vibrational frequency(ies) of water (wavelength(s)
in micrometers) vs speed of sound (1500 m/sec)? 9
orders(decimal) of magnitude?</p>
<p>I have been fascinated by the quasi-crystalline structures that
have been both discovered scientifically and invoked woo-woo-ly
such as described in Mae-Wan Ho's Rainbow Water/Worm, AND it's
implications around the physics of <i>Life Itself</i>.<br>
</p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/6928#t=aboutBook">
https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/6928#t=aboutBook</a></p>
<img moz-do-not-send="false"
src="cid:part1.xz048tJM.eghsoKED@swcp.com" alt="" width="311"
height="136"> <img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://www.sciencefacts.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Vacuole.jpg"
alt="" width="120" height="133"> <img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bostonglobe.s3.amazonaws.com/public/PJWW7BE2WYI6LOWSD76PRSVWYY.jpg"
alt="" width="175" height="132"> <img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://afb.accuweather.com/hs-fs/hubfs/GettyImages-1312890451-2.jpg?width=2000&name=GettyImages-1312890451-2.jpg"
alt="" width="200" height="133"><br>
<p>And little or none of it might be relevant to the "physics of
swirlies" (RIP Doug Roberts)...</p>
<p><img src="cid:part2.Bq2bsrDd.BAVgR2rb@swcp.com" alt=""
width="196" height="138"></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>in the bigger/broader question of meteorology as a coherent
discipline vs "clabboring together of ..." some (unpublished)work
I did 15 years ago with <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=PFifM5MAAAAJ&hl=en">Deana
Pennington</a> on the topic of the emergence of new scientific
disciplines/paradigms would suggest that this precise level of
dis/mis-organization and apparent "clabboring" and "incompatable"
is an earmark of an impending phase-shift (and in fact what might
represent the emergence of a new field and/or new paradigms)? I
highly recommend Deanna's entire corpus for those interested in
the meta-topic of scientific
collaboration/understanding/processes, especially in the
bio/eco/climate sciences. We have not worked closely since she
moved from UNM to UTEP a decade ago... she thrives there best I
can tell. I no longer do anything useful beyond gadfly-about
myself. Some <i>Laurels</i> make for better resting than
others...</p>
<p>- Steve</p>
<p><i> May the laurels you rest on be the fruit of living in
interesting times? </i>(to mangle/mashup/clabber-up some
aphorisms)<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/7/23 1:10 PM, Roger Critchlow
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGayqovbSmvV=c2Y3na3H6deOWDWPOMG--QnENTg3vQENh0c4A@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Anyone who needs to call "woke" to make a
scientific argument has lost my ear. An attention seeking
proto-populist weatherman.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The electrostatics of individual water molecules, that the
hydrogens have some positive charge and the lone pairs of
oxygen have some negative charge (which is actually a
consequence of the molecule geometry), is all averaged into
the thermodynamic behavior. That gaseous water vapor and
liquid water vapor droplets coexist is one way the gas -
liquid equilibrium can roll. Are the droplets drying out or
getting wetter decides which way the heat is moving. The
amount of surface area between the liquid and gas phases
facilitates the rate of heat transfer/drying/wetting.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The fundamental delusion is thinking you can explain the
weather better than simply blaming it on the gods. We know
the basic principles involved, but the variety of ways it can
work out continues to surprise us.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- rec --</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 8:54 AM
Nicholas Thompson <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>thanks Pieter for giving a hear. He almost certainly
is a crack pot (he has an "only I can fix it" thing
going) but is he wrong about everything? He makes a big
deal about the special properties of water molecules. He
argues that these are created not by the geometric
properties of the molecule per se but by the electrostatic
(?!) gradient created by the structure, a distinction he
admits is subtle, but insists is absolutely crucial. He
says at one point that water vapor itself is rare and that
water remains in minuscule droplet form or (??????)
sometimes forms a plasma. Some how this leads him to the
conclusion that convection is a confection. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do have sympathy for his general assertion that
meteorology is an incoherent clabboring together of
incompatible ways of talking and thinking. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is one of those moments when I profoundly miss
Hywel White. One of his aphorisms was "Water is <i><b>WEIRD!"</b></i></div>
<div><i><b><br>
</b></i></div>
<div><i><b>Nick<br>
</b></i></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at
12:57 AM Pieter Steenekamp <<a
href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I listened to the podcast and my opinion is
that this guy, James McGinn, is a crackpot. </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at
05:28, Nicholas Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr"><b>Hi, all,</b></div>
<div dir="ltr"><b><br>
</b></div>
<div dir="ltr"><b>I was casting about for a podcast
on meteorology and stumbled on this guy. I
can’t tell if he’s a total raging loon. he says
some interesting things about the properties of
water and then claims that convection is a myth!
I could not find any trace of him on the web
except this podcast. The one thing he says that
caught my attention is that meteorologists imply
that air masses have structural properties that
would allow, say, in light air mass to hold a
loft, a heavier one. Having red hundreds of
forecast discussions, I sort of know what he’s
talking about.</b></div>
<div dir="ltr"><b><br>
</b></div>
<div dir="ltr"><b><br>
</b></div>
<div dir="ltr"><strong>?????????!!!!!!!!</strong></div>
<div dir="ltr"><strong>Nick.</strong></div>
<div dir="ltr"><strong>Solving Tornadoes: Woke
Meteorology</strong><br>
James McGinn<br>
<br>
Exposing the incompetence of the current
meteorological paradigm on storm theory and
introducing a new, scientifically competent theory
of storms and atmospheric flow.
<p>Listen on Apple Podcasts: <a
href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/solving-tornadoes-woke-meteorology/id1489185715"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/solving-tornadoes-woke-meteorology/id1489185715</a></p>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my Dumb <span
style="font-size:17pt">Phone</span></div>
</div>
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