<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Zang! I had not made that connection.<div><br></div><div>Hmmh. What do I think? I seem to have viewed uninterpreted models much as I view a hammer or a shovel; as a tool in the world for doing a certain job (in this case, a job of perceiving the world in valid ways), neither here nor there w.r.t. questions of nihilism.</div><div><br></div><div>Where then would I try to center nihilism? (It\u2019s being a topic I haven\u2019t spent a lot of time on historically). Maybe if I had to choose one phrase, it would be \u201cthe devaluation of values\u201d. Brown uses it in her book, but I think it is old and standardized. Don\u2019t know if it came from Nietzsche or Weber, or is much older than either of them. </div><div><br></div><div>How would I orient to try to address such questions, that I do not want to go into support of bombs? I think my current cast of mind is that there is a large class of \u201cdiscovered thing\u201d, meaning that they are not willed into existence, but are brought into existence (if there is even any bringing) through lived experience, and \u201cnoticed\u201d after the fact. Or maybe given in the ineffable from the start, and noticed along the way (all of Descartes\u2019s cogito, the rest of \u201cthe self\u201d, and much else). It seems to me that there is room for aesthetics to be given much more and better attention than perhaps it has had in philosophy (or whoever is in charge of this question). Aesthetics certainly not being the only domain from which discovered things can originate, but useful in that we can recognize it as a source, but not have the impulse to conflate it with dogma, as many other notions of \u201cbelief\u201d tend to drift into.</div><div><br></div><div>Hmm.</div><div><br></div><div>Eric</div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 8, 2023, at 12:30 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus@snoutfarm.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Eric writes:<br><br>\u201cBears on how many things make up the machinery of nihilism, extending well beyond relations I recognized as part of an integration, though mentioning many things I rail against in daily life.\u201d<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>The willingness of physicists to use uninterpreted models, e.g., quantum mechanics, seems like nihilism to me. I don\u2019t mean that in a judgmental way, nor do I mean it in an admiring way. On the other hand, there are many people, I reckon most people, that provide their beliefs as both explanations and justifications. Bombs follow soon after.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Marcus<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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