<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Zang! I had not made that connection.<div><br></div><div>Hmmh. What do I think? I seem to have viewed uninterpreted models much as I view a hammer or a shovel; as a tool in the world for doing a certain job (in this case, a job of perceiving the world in valid ways), neither here nor there w.r.t. questions of nihilism.</div><div><br></div><div>Where then would I try to center nihilism? (It’s being a topic I haven’t spent a lot of time on historically). Maybe if I had to choose one phrase, it would be “the devaluation of values”. Brown uses it in her book, but I think it is old and standardized. Don’t know if it came from Nietzsche or Weber, or is much older than either of them. </div><div><br></div><div>How would I orient to try to address such questions, that I do not want to go into support of bombs? I think my current cast of mind is that there is a large class of “discovered thing”, meaning that they are not willed into existence, but are brought into existence (if there is even any bringing) through lived experience, and “noticed” after the fact. Or maybe given in the ineffable from the start, and noticed along the way (all of Descartes’s cogito, the rest of “the self”, and much else). It seems to me that there is room for aesthetics to be given much more and better attention than perhaps it has had in philosophy (or whoever is in charge of this question). Aesthetics certainly not being the only domain from which discovered things can originate, but useful in that we can recognize it as a source, but not have the impulse to conflate it with dogma, as many other notions of “belief” tend to drift into.</div><div><br></div><div>Hmm.</div><div><br></div><div>Eric</div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 8, 2023, at 12:30 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus@snoutfarm.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Eric writes:<br><br>“Bears on how many things make up the machinery of nihilism, extending well beyond relations I recognized as part of an integration, though mentioning many things I rail against in daily life.”<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>The willingness of physicists to use uninterpreted models, e.g., quantum mechanics, seems like nihilism to me. I don’t mean that in a judgmental way, nor do I mean it in an admiring way. On the other hand, there are many people, I reckon most people, that provide their beliefs as both explanations and justifications. Bombs follow soon after.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Marcus<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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