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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/13/23 6:42 PM, David Eric Smith
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:EA2CC9B8-8038-46A4-8505-8B4C7ADC8284@santafe.edu">
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Well in that case, definitely look up the interview he did with
Sara Walker and Lee Cronin.
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<div>I will not comment further.</div>
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<div>Eric</div>
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<br>
<p>Gah!</p>
<p>Coincidence that I just finished Stephen Webb's updated review of
the Fermi Paradox. I didn't choose to read it because I have a
vested interest in the answers (roughly 75 whack-a-moles), but
rather a fascination with the fact that the question hasn't been
advanced significantly since the <a
href="https://sgp.fas.org/othergov/doe/lanl/la-10311-ms.pdf">Eric
Jones' LA-UR of 198</a>5 (Alias Smith and Jones?) on the
topic, which I read as a very young LANL Staff Member when it
was published internally. Or the Drake equation since 1961? It
was also fascinating to be re-introduced to <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth%27s_up-arrow_notation">Knuth's
Up-Arrow notatio</a>n for expressing excruciatingly large
numbers.... <br>
</p>
<p>At the time it seemed like we hadn't been asking the question
long enough (~40 years) for the answers to mean much (have much
relevance?)... 40ish years later is only 2X longer yet the
technical progress (e.g. SETI/Hubble/Webb/Deep Machine
Learning/...) the silence of the cosmos seems significantly more
pregnant?<br>
</p>
<p>I've given Walker/Cronin/Fridman about 70 minutes so far and my
head hurts (in the best way)... and I'm clearly over my head in
beaucoup ways... though I may not be able to stop and it will be
definitely one of those "4 hours I will never be able to, nor want
to, get back?)<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p>she said <i>"the fact that we can even talk here is a result
of the fact that we can exchange structures in assembly
space" <br>
</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>statements like this and implied references to abstractions like
Godel Numbering on Assembly Indices and Kauffman's NK model,
casual graphs ala Glymour or Perl, L-systems, Wheeler's It-to-Bit
and a spectrum from discovered to invented, leave me (yet more)
painfully aware of how over my head I am... I dismissed SFI's
"interplanetary" announcements back when (2019) as unserious but
with Ted Chiang's "Arrival" at SFI in light of his "Story of your
Life" and the <br>
</p>
<p>In a few months/years I expect this type of discussion could as
easily be actors reading a GPT-X script which entirely captures
the stylization of a serious discussion without being
(necessarily?) serious at all and perhaps *nobody* could tell? <br>
</p>
<p>The intersection of <i>possibility</i> and <i>probability</i>
spaces seems to define/imply something about what I said at
earlier about the difference between memory/imagination,
past/future? (<i>Will, Qualia, ???</i>)<br>
</p>
<p>I'm suspect I should follow your lead and not comment further
(for entirely different reasons)... If I really want to hurt
myself (some more) I should probably cue up Fridman's interview
with Wolfram back to back with this one. At this rate I doubt I
will ever get around to his interviews with Netanyahu and Kushner
or Rogan...<br>
</p>
<p>Lex just commented "<i>discovering wisdom through nuanced
disagreement</i>?" and it seems to be good support for Glen's
agonism... <br>
</p>
<p>Argh... "why does head hurt when Hulk try to think?" maybe I
should sign up for the Neuralink Beta and get the GPT-shield to go
with it? With a power-tower count of components </p>
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<p>(.<i>... must... stop... now...</i> )<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:EA2CC9B8-8038-46A4-8505-8B4C7ADC8284@santafe.edu">
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Nov 13, 2023, at 5:57 PM, Steve Smith
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"><sasmyth@swcp.com></a> wrote:</div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/13/23 12:06 PM, glen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:757bfd17-0ed6-4033-96ae-68fbfda8d811@gmail.com">You might want
to check the Gurometer. Lex has an entry: <br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oe-af4_OmzLJavktcSKGfP0wmxCX0ppP8n_Tvi9l_yc/edit?usp=sharing"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oe-af4_OmzLJavktcSKGfP0wmxCX0ppP8n_Tvi9l_yc/edit?usp=sharing</a>
<br>
<br>
While Lex's scores are relatively low compared to some
of the wackos on the list, we are known by
association. And many of Lex's guests score relatively
high. <br>
</blockquote>
<p>Fascinating resource, thanks! You are a veritable
font (fount) of things like this that I should
probably be able to find for myself.<br>
</p>
<p>I had to look a little to find a key to the columns
of the table, I don't know if this is the preferred
or only one, but it seemed close enough to be useful
for my purposes:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftechhenzy.com%2fgurometer%2f&c=E,1,-jmX3-GnKvHRZ-U6g3sLfGsk8ntKDTZ0snin2zifY--Hno29Qx92h9fhySz8IXtuihWQCxiEVogT6296DEPPb4qsdNHWD6ZIX5ul4F-34Wihzhuu&typo=1"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://techhenzy.com/gurometer/</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I haven't listened to enough of Lex's podcasts (did I
mention 1-2 hours each?!) to be able to evaluate what
his "coupling" is with his guests... even without the
GuruMeter I felt that theme ("known by association")
from the more prominent/recent interviewees he has
engaged... but my contingent judgement of the
*content* and *style* of the interviews
counterbalanced that almost to an extreme. Which is
why I brought it up here.</p>
<p>Implicit but likely opaque/arcane to your own
references to community (self) policing and ?agonism?,
I feel (with limited experience so far) that Fridman
may well provide a regulating role within some
community (of Galaxy-Brain Gurus?)...</p>
<p>I doubt I will get the 'round t'uits but it seems
like there is a tensor product to be explored among
these folks and their various interactions with one
another... something interesting might emerge?
Maybe this only occurs to me because Lex is more of a
coupling agent than a primary source of any
ideas/theories/positions from what I've seen so far.
I haven't investigated the GuruMeter guys enough to
understand their methods but I take it for granted
they are not unserious in this work.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:757bfd17-0ed6-4033-96ae-68fbfda8d811@gmail.com"> <br>
On 11/13/23 10:08, Steve Smith wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">It seems (maybe only to me?)
that "will" is what defines the intersection of
memory and imagination? The
free-will-less-ness-ers among us (ala Sopolsky
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fbooks%2f2023%2foct%2f24%2fdetermined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions&c=E,1,91wHpfNIkmXC-CnGi3PazdL_hQlw2NlNpCoVT3nJCuot5r9OAZsB0usPuLlH6_6rlBoDorx2bLYVT55_T9jETx_-4wilrXWAjG-3MNgonMWE9w,,&typo=1"
moz-do-not-send="true"><https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/24/determined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions></a>)
may find this an entirely specious thing to consider
or discuss (though without free will, what means
"specious" or "discuss" or "consider" sans
free-will?). <br>
<br>
I recently discovered Lex Fridman's podcasts <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flexfridman.com%2fpodcast%2f&c=E,1,QWrnSg3KQcihreIAIaA74In11b90OwQV4DbIgelWBXYN4Ud1PK0WvNTlNakcIB0zdfgEMx2X6t8b-1_TPyUhzXpNMlaFz3z4sKIKjXliwZAs&typo=1"
moz-do-not-send="true"><https://lexfridman.com/podcast/></a>
and was quite surprised by several things (albeit
with very limited sampling... all of his most recent
interview with Musk and a bit of his interview with
Isaacson and about half of the Harari one): I
don't significantly disagree with the general
mistrust of Musk in his Autistic-ish style and
affect, but I'd say that Lex brings out the best in
him, showing him to be capable of thoughtful and
even empathetic-ish observations. As I understand
it (from my reading of Isaacson's biography of Musk)
brother Kimball may also be a significantly similar
"regulating influence" on Elon. Grimes maybe,
maybe not. The other mothers of his children,
same-same... probably each and all of them for a
period of time or within certain frameworks. And
again, same with the children... though maybe
projection on my part having been moderately
well-regulated in several modes by my own children
during each of their phases (right up to their
current middle-agedness). <br>
<br>
As an aside, Fridman's other interviews also all
sound potentially fascinating... though I cringe at
the fact/thought of interviews with Netanyahu,
KanYE, Kushner, Rogan... the commentary I've
read around those interviews tends to skew toward
"how could you normalize (amplify?) those A**holes
by even giving them the time of the day???!!!?".
Lex's interviews are definitely long-form (1-2
hours) compared to today's
tik-tok/ad-jingle/bumper-sticker/snark-pith
calibrated sound-bitery. I find myself avoiding
them for this reason (not wanting to commit to
listening past some of my own prejudices long enough
to hear what they are really about?) but recognize
(and have already begun to practice) that as with
long-form written journalism, I can take it in bits,
like I might eat a rich holiday meal... not try to
gulp it down quickly in one sitting like a TV-dinner
(for you X-ers, "Hot-Pocket", and Millenials ==
"??") for the mind. <br>
<br>
My recent fascination with Deacon's "Teleodynamics",
Jeff Hawkins' take on the structure/function of the
neocortex and Ian McGilchrist's updated take on
brain bicameralism (Master and Emissary <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary"
moz-do-not-send="true"><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary></a>)
feeds into this question of the intersection of
memory and imagination and the implications of
Transformer Models and other Generative Models in
general. My direct experience with GPT-4 and
DALL-E is significant (many 10s of hours of
engagement) but still a drop in the bucket. There
are times when I feel that all I've done is engaged
with an incredibly high-dimensional
french-curve/bezier spline and thereby been able to
smoothly interpolate/extrapolate a handful of
interesting (to me) data points into what feels like
a powerful elaboration of what is implied by said
curve-fit in the past (unknown knowns?) and future
(unknown unknowns)? When I'm not totally
enraptured by the (apparent?) novelty (relative to
my expectations/predictions) of it's responses I'm
generally disappointed at it's limited
creativity... and left puzzling over the question
of "novelty vs creativity". <br>
<br>
Bumble, <br>
<br>
- Steve <br>
<br>
On 11/13/23 10:27 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">It seems to me that neither
Musk and Thiel are interested in the unknown. They
are interested in doing things they can already
imagine. For Musk I thought that was because it
is how he raises money. Now I think he is not
imagining consciousness in a, say, a transporter
pattern buffer, he imagines life on the Enterprise
bridge in his body. Rockets are comparatively
science fictiony for people that can't imagine
transport without a car, so he gets some points
for that. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 13, 2023, at
10:11 AM, glen<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><gepropella@gmail.com></a>
wrote: <br>
<br>
There's an interesting parallel between the
Stross and Gellman pieces: Stross both laments
and implicitly appreciates the bureaucracy of
getting a book published, where Thiel's
aggrieved by the bureaucracy of societal
evolution. <br>
<br>
It reminds me of the engineering-vs-biology
dichotomy (yes, false, like all of them) I came
to appreciate after being exposed to enough
biomimetics (to kill a horse). Some of us see
the world and think about how to change it,
build a better world ... or perhaps destroy the
world, whatever floats your inner engineer. And
some of us see the world and are awestruck,
hypnotized, baffled by its qualities (whether
beautiful or horrifying). It's easy to give the
latter a pass and denigrate the former when
confronted with, say, butterflies or the Grand
Canyon. And it's easy to give the former a pass
when confronted with poverty and war. <br>
<br>
But the next time you're at the DMV or arguing
with some poor sucker manning the phones at the
IRS, it can be useful to remember the falseness
of the dichtomy. Similarly, when all you want to
do is sleep under the stars and those damned
gnats keep homing into your ears, it can be
useful to think like an engineer. <br>
<br>
Policy and science fiction aren't that far
apart. <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 11/10/23 13:46,
Marcus Daniels wrote: <br>
original.png <br>
Peter Thiel Is Taking a Break From
Democracy<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share"
moz-do-not-send="true"><https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share></a><br>
On 11/10/23 11:26, Roger Critchlow wrote: <br>
Text of Charlie Stross' talk to Next Frontiers
Applied Fiction Day in Stuttgart on Friday
November 10th, 2023, concerning where the
techno-industrial elite found their horrible
philosophies/secular religions. <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.antipope.org%2fcharlie%2fblog-static%2f2023%2f11%2fdont-create-the-torment-nexus.html&c=E,1,npJ9AGeEQaUqgDJWMftMsnL-pymj_8pksBePVrbQ_gdF_v3fw88D4pk5N0nHIICGXPhItn57qErQ9u7HSkuvSqtpYRapdSTtpENo508PmwuMPlc7ou5f6pLrIPnj&typo=1"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2023/11/dont-create-the-torment-nexus.html</a>
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