<div dir="ltr"><div>Nothing could be more calculated to bring an old pedant out from under his rock than this thread: <br></div><div><br></div><div>Mine is the use of "incredible" to mean "excellent". As in, "Don't you think Rachel Maddow is an incredible commentator?" There was an Australian Philosopher, David Stove, who wrote a book called, Popper and After, which talked about how modern thought seemed devoted to neutralizing success words ... such as "credibile", for instance. Orwell, saw it as a step toward Fascism. FASCHISM. Shirley, I jest. Faschism could never happen in the Unite States!</div><div><br></div><div>i used to faint-dead when people used "inform" to mean "shape" as in,"My thinking was informed by Glen's concept, Steelmanning," but I am trying to get over that. Turns out it's a perfectly valid meaning of the verb, and I don't have a leg to stand on. I still hate it, but I hate it quietly. I don't object when people say it. I just think about ways to kill them later. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Beware,</div><div><br></div><div>Nick<br></div><div><br></div><div>Nick, <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:18\u202fAM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<p>Glen -</p>
<p>I appreciate that you shared with us your "handicap" which
reminds me of your self-report a few years back of tryptophobia.</p>
<p>I also am triggered by both of these. Your examples of
Nukular/Nuclear and Axe/Ask are obviously pretty familiar. I
respond to them pretty pre-consciously without overtly reacting,
which kicks me into a new register of reflective judgement: to
whit "what does this choice/not-choice of this particular
articulation imply about the character and values of this
person?". <br>
</p>
<p>From a 2002 <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/weekinreview/confronting-noo-kyuh-luhr-proliferation.html" target="_blank">article
in the NYT</a>:<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i><span style="color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:nyt-imperial,georgia,"times new roman",times,serif;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">Yet
the use of ''NOO-kyuh-luhr'' is not uncommon, even among
prominent and educated people, including four of the
nation's last 10 presidents: Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was
widely admonished for it; Gerald R. Ford; Jimmy Carter, who
did graduate work in nuclear physics, and also used
''NOO-kee-yer''; and now George W. Bush.</span></i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I was not particularly bothered by or aware of this
mispronunciation until the constant hammering of GW Bush to the
tune of his (Cheney/Rumsfeldt/Wolfowitz?) drumbeats leading up to
the Iraq War. I attributed it to a combination of his (affected
or adopted?) Texas drawl/slang and his (apparent?) willful
ignorance of science (as a dogwhistle to redneck/populists?) I
still hear it that way if the speaker is the least bit leaning
toward that end of the spectrum.</p>
<p>I didn't notice the Axe/Ask division until my father started
listening to Rush Limbaugh in the 90s and shifted from a mild
(applauding Archie Bunker) populist white racist to a more
convicted one. "Axe" really triggered him when he heard it, and
I think it was because it could be a marker of AAVE (aka
"ebonics") which I think for him was more of a resentment of Urban
Poverty (vs the Rural Poverty he came from) than specifically the
racist implications (though it was baked into his upbringing/roots
even if he preached anti-racist or at least pro-tolerance to me
growing up).</p>
<p>Your bringing up of this phenomena (and in particular
"metathesis") lead me (as it often does) to take a quick dive into
a rabbit hole and "larn me some stuff". Thank you.<br>
</p>
<p>In closing, I'm fascinated by the relationship between phobias
and philias, which might be a reformulation of addictions vs
allergies. Your tryptophobia exhibits as more of a tryptophilia
in me... a fascination bordering (but I don't give over to) on
fetish. The dirty little corner of youtube dedicated to "pimple
popping" and "blackhead removal", for example whispers to me when
I trip into it's perimeters. </p>
<p>I also find unusual dialects of American (as well a the broad
British Commonwealth) fascinating (bordering on philia if not
fetish). And I find most "southern Cracker" variants a marker
of willful ignorance (or ignorant willfulness?) which I attribute
to my main exposure coming through my Appalachian Cousins who are
generally moderately educated (none failed to graduate HS that I
know of and some even obtained PhDs). To complement that, *most*
are diehard born-again Xtian types who have to work "have you
accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior" into any extended
encounter. So when they lace their (otherwise educated or
sophisticated) conversation with Southern American English
pronunciations and idioms (e.g. all y'all) and "Jahysuz"
references I cringe and lower my estimation of their character,
intelligence, and general sensibilities by a notch or two... but
the top half of my brain seems to know better and renormalizes as
best it can... <br>
</p>
<p>I've a good friend who said it well: "Don't mistake an accent for
a personality". She wass mostly referencing her predilection for
falling for men (and women) with exotic accents.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 12/1/23 10:07 AM, glen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">I made
the mistake of confessing my handicap to a friend. Now he
purposefully says nukular as a kind of Castañedan slap on the
back, or the master's whack with the stick. He knows it knocks me
out of whatever canal I was in. It's irritating, but a good thing
overall.
<br>
<br>
Actually, it started with the pronunciation of diacetyl, which
most of my friends at the brewery pronounce "die-ASS-uh-tul".
That's another one that doesn't give me the hiccups. My
Mansplainer homunculus doesn't even notice. But I did get a chance
to discuss it with the owner, wherein I suggested that
"ASS-uh-tal" is a chemical group that's fundamentally different
from acetyl. And, even though there's almost zero chance of anyone
*ever* saying the word "diacetal", it's still reasonable to prefer
the more common "die-uh-SEE-tul". After all, nobody says
"ASS-uh-tul-kole-een" or "ASS-uh-tul-een torch". On the other
hand, hangovers are discussed a lot in places like breweries ...
with taprooms at least. And acetaldehyde is (almost) pronounced
like "ASS-uh-tul-dee-hide" (with some wiggle around "tul" vs
"tal"). So, again, there is some slight reason prefer one
pronunciation over the other.
<br>
<br>
No such luck with nukular. Any desire to correct someone when they
say it that way is empty (and actually false) pedantry. I still
hate it, though.
<br>
<br>
On 12/1/23 07:28, Frank Wimberly wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">My dad was a nuclear engineer and nukular
has always bothered me greatly. I try to help people to say it
right by telling them to think "new clear". I'm not sure that
would help Bush.
<br>
<br>
---
<br>
Frank C. Wimberly
<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
<br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505
<br>
<br>
505 670-9918
<br>
Santa Fe, NM
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 8:21\u202fAM glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:gepropella@gmail.com></a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
<br>
So, on the death of The War Criminal, I've been reflecting
on the most irritating thing to me about George W Bush's stint:
nukular. Sure. It's irritating that he started a war for no good
reason. If we learn anything from Kissinger's treatment by the
press, it's that those sorts of things don't actually matter.
<br>
<br>
But the way you pronounce "nuclear"? That matters ... to me,
anyway. I've managed to grind off the burrs in my thinking when
someone says "axe" instead of "ask", glottals their Ts, etc. But
I just can't get over nukular. Every time someone says it that
way, whatever it was I was doing or thinking goes straight out
the fscking window. With, say, "axe", I can actually do it
myself without feeling shame. Same with t-flapping. (And vocal
fry.)
<br>
<br>
Wikipedia gives me a nice list of triggerable attributes of
language: metathesis, elision, epenthesis, flapping,
assimilation, dissimilation, etc. My request, here, is for
examples from anyone that rankle you or that you've overcome.
Presumably, the more aware I am with others' struggles with
such, the less I'll be triggered by my own.
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
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