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-</li>
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don't know the specifics of your sleep difficulties but I have
always been interested in sleep and perhaps dreaming even
moreso...</li>
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following "Great Course" I listened to from Audible a few months
ago was really fascinating and covered the whole territory from
history to contemporary research in both human and animal sleep
science. <br>
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<h1
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tabindex="0" role="tabpanel"
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size="2">Secrets of Sleep Science: From Dreams to
Disorders</font></h1>
</li>
<li class="bc-list-item
authorLabel" tabindex="0" role="tabpanel"
style="box-sizing: inherit; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(57 155 213 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; list-style: none;">By:<span> </span><a
class="bc-link
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href="https://www.audible.com/search?searchAuthor=Craig+H.+Heller&ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_author_1&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd"
style="box-sizing: inherit; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(57 155 213 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; color: rgb(14, 91, 155); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Craig
H. Heller</a>,<span> </span><a
class="bc-link
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href="https://www.audible.com/author/The-Great-Courses/B06XPWVHFB?ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_author_2&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd"
style="box-sizing: inherit; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(57 155 213 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; color: rgb(14, 91, 155); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">The
Great Courses</a></li>
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style="box-sizing: inherit; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(57 155 213 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; list-style: none;">Narrated
by:<span> </span><a
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href="https://www.audible.com/search?searchNarrator=Craig+H.+Heller&ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_narrator_1&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd"
style="box-sizing: inherit; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(57 155 213 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; color: rgb(14, 91, 155); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Craig
H. Heller</a></li>
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seriesLabel"
style="box-sizing: inherit; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(57 155 213 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; list-style: none;">Series:<span> </span><a
class="bc-link
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href="https://www.audible.com/series/The-Great-Courses-Better-Living-Audiobooks/B00DLM6DD2?ref_pageloadid=2f9kOlvU2fZP6dqN&ref=a_pd_Secret_c1_series_1&pf_rd_p=df6bf89c-ab0c-4323-993a-2a046c7399f9&pf_rd_r=YVWWGS5SW8XG52NWE7EB&pageLoadId=TVKgA3mi5XL5irlP&creativeId=16015ba4-2e2d-4ae3-93c5-e937781a25cd"
style="box-sizing: inherit; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(57 155 213 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; color: rgb(14, 91, 155); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">The
Great Courses: Better Living</a></li>
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<p>I myself have used both phone apps (you leave the phone on your
bed, for example under your pillow) and fitness (e.g. fitbit)
trackers. I haven't tried the former for years and found them
(at the time) to be somewhat limited, but mildly informative
(based on detecting micro/macro inertial motions?). The latter
(several brands over the years) have gotten progressively
better. <br>
</p>
<p>By better, I mean that what the app (connected to the band)
reports fits my overnight experience. It has sometimes surprised
me, but overall it mostly confirms what I already knew. I am
perhaps an unusual case, seeking the liminal sleep states
(hypnogogic/hypnopompic) for the dreaming that comes with it
(perhaps I should just give over to the popular pursuit through
psychedelics?)... My idea of a "good night's sleep" involves a
lot of drifting in/out... the trackers don't always report this
well, reporting long periods of deep sleep which I experienced as
otherwise, but probably not leading to any changes in my
"stillness"?</p>
<p>Biphasic Cycles:<br>
</p>
<p>I don't know if this is relevant to you but I've recommended it
to other friends who began to experience segmented or biphasic
sleep, particularly as they got older... <a
href="https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393329018">At Day's Close:
Night in Times Past</a> by Roger Ekirch. I found it (and
the broad historical and contemporary research) around the
phenomena of (typically) sleeping from soon after sundown until
midnight (plus or minus), waking for a few hours, and then
completing a day's sleep/rest into the morning, compelling. In
most cases, my friends reported that their waking after a few
hours of sleep, unable to go back to sleep easily, as
disturbing. I wanted to relieve them of the disturbance by
helping them (possibly) normalize the "midnight vigil" and put it
to good use.</p>
<p>Many of us (perhaps) have experienced waking late in the night
unable to return to sleep using reading to put us back to sleep.
This is the closest I have come to the biphasic Ekirch and others
describe... particularly when I have been reading an acutely
fascinating book (fic or non) which then might capture me for an
hour or two... </p>
<p>In college, after my first child was born and I was very very
busy already, I found that I could perform better by going to
sleep at dark (with the baby) and then when she needed midnight
attention, staying up doing homework or paperwork for my business
for an hour or two, I was much sharper then typically than if I
simply stayed up late or got up early. I know this doesn't apply
to you directly (nor to me today) but I felt it validated the idea
of biphasic sleep cycles.</p>
<p>In any case, best wishes with your sleep endeavors!</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/20/24 8:47 AM, Alexander Rasmus
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK8YfU=2AoaDjyMdCEY8Tyf40zJn4nuB-6pROyEyV06XGaSGAQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Nick,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you look around in google scholar you can find
comparisons between smart watches and medical devices for
monitoring sleep stages, e.g., <a
href="https://mhealth.jmir.org/2019/6/e13384?utm_campaign=JMIR_TrendMD_0&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=TrendMD"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mhealth.jmir.org/2019/6/e13384?utm_campaign=JMIR_TrendMD_0&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=TrendMD</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In general, you should be fairly skeptical of specifics but
trends may still be useful. The only way to establish whether
it's reliable in your case is through detailed comparison
between your own observations of sleep behavior/outcomes and
the watch. This is likely to be a useful exercise regardless.
I use one, and the sleep quality number is generally fairly
good. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jochen, I am sorry for your loss.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Alex<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at
9:12 PM Nicholas Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Everybody I know sleeps badly. Has any of you had any
lu from heartrate? ck with a sleeptracker. Did it teach
you anything you did not already know? I borrowed a fit
bit from my daughter and it tells me my sleep efficiency
is lousy, and I don't bet much rem or deep sleep. Does it
know what it is talking about. Can you get all of that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any experience to share out there? <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nick <br>
</div>
</div>
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