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<p><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/19gT7jGwFedMrOKcTKOfd1pd7iQzq6_mM/view?usp=drive_link"
alt=""><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/19gT7jGwFedMrOKcTKOfd1pd7iQzq6_mM/view?usp=drive_link"
alt="">Expositions and Explanations of Exemplifications</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>Apologies for the inline/included images, I tried (and
failed) to link them from my google-docs/AI-Hallucinations
folder and failed... I will try to work that out before
loading down the remailer and your inboxes in the future.</i><br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I fed Guerin's GPT discussion of the into my own instance of
GPT4 and asked it to try to generate an image representing the
concepts under discussion. True to form (in my experience), GPT
reported that DALL-E failed at the effort based on conflicting
with content policies. When I asked for clarification on which
aspects of the prompt or content policies were at odds, it
apologized and revised it's analysis to be essentially "too
complex" so I then asked it to rephrase the discussion to be
within it's capacity. It responded by dumbing it down a lot to
essentially hyperspherical space time. I asked it to try to
render with the TIQM concepts included and it came up with this:<br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part1.uGlw03hm.cfJsHkKz@swcp.com"></p>
<p>As with many of it's imaginings, I find the representations
highly notional and not particularly helpful for explanation or
exposition. The "cosmic" backdrop is somewhat specious to me,
but not surprising when I think of the imagery it was likely
trained on.</p>
<p>I then asked it to replace TIQM with Wheeler-Feynman and it
choked again, citing over-complexity, at which point I asked for
the following:</p>
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class="min-h-[20px] text-message flex flex-col items-start gap-3 whitespace-pre-wrap break-words [.text-message+&]:mt-5 overflow-x-auto"
style="border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-via-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(69,89,164,.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; display: flex; min-height: 20px; flex-direction: column; align-items: flex-start; gap: 0.75rem; overflow-x: auto; white-space: pre-wrap; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div
class=""
style="border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-via-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(69,89,164,.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ;">ME: let's reduce the conception to a space-time hypersphere with where causality extends in all temporal directions, allowing for a more holistic understanding of interactions at the quantum level. In this framework, the concept of time is not a barrier but a connective fabric that binds the cosmos in a complex web of cause and effect,</div></div>
</div>
<div class="mt-1 flex justify-start gap-3 empty:hidden"
style="border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-via-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(69,89,164,.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; margin-top: 0.25rem; display: flex; justify-content: flex-start; gap: 0.75rem;">
<div
class="text-gray-400 flex self-end lg:self-center items-center justify-center lg:justify-start mt-0 -ml-1 h-7 gap-[2px] visible"
style="border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-via-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(69,89,164,.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; visibility: visible; margin-left: -0.25rem; margin-top: 0px; display: flex; height: 1.75rem; align-items: center; justify-content: center; gap: 2px; align-self: flex-end; --tw-text-opacity: 1; color: rgba(180,180,180,var(--tw-text-opacity));"><button
class="p-1 rounded-md text-token-text-tertiary hover:text-token-text-primary md:invisible md:group-hover:visible md:group-[.final-completion]:visible"
style="border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-gradient-from-position: ; --tw-gradient-via-position: ; --tw-gradient-to-position: ; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(69,89,164,.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow: 0 0 transparent; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 transparent; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; color: var(--text-tertiary); font-family: inherit; font-size: 16px; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0.25rem; text-transform: none; appearance: button; background-color: transparent; background-image: none; cursor: pointer; border-radius: 0.375rem;"></button></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p></p>
<p>which then yielded the following:</p>
<p><img src="cid:part2.tk7TWpg0.tZb35Fmm@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="false"></p>
<p>I found this more interesting and relevant to my own conception
but again not particularly explanatory nor expository. I like
the "connective fabric" gesture but feel like the idea itself was
a little specious in the first place?</p>
<p>At this point I thought of DaveW and asked it to convolve the
former with a conception of the Vedic "Indra's Net" which we have
summarized here before as "all contextualizes all" which yielded
the following. I don't find the invocation of a "web of jewels"
to be particularly helpful for the most part, but can see how in
the culture(s) it arose from it was a motivated image or metaphor
to work with. I do like the idea that the "net" itself is not
necessarily the tension-compression of physical connections but
more like optical/light paths with the "nodes" or "Jewels" being
reflectors/refractors of the information "resonating". Again,
words fail. As do images. Oh well.<br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part3.PGUJ4otL.SAS1WiwQ@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="false"></p>
Attempting to make this at least a little relevant to Glen's latest
point I can only re-invoke the generalization 'all contextualizes
all" which I suppose reduces to something even more trite than the
new-age renderings above?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOmOqn++kfTNyX5shLpNdM0i_JZChaOr+sCvNgFEAtbb9RqY7g@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Prompt:</div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(236,236,236);font-family:söhne,ui-sans-serif,"system-ui",-apple-system,"segoe ui",roboto,ubuntu,cantarell,"noto sans",sans-serif,"helvetica neue",arial,"apple color emoji","segoe ui emoji","segoe ui symbol","noto color emoji";font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(33,33,33)">Express
a unique concept. Make it as profound as possible </span><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="color:rgb(236,236,236);font-family:söhne,ui-sans-serif,"system-ui",-apple-system,"segoe ui",roboto,ubuntu,cantarell,"noto sans",sans-serif,"helvetica neue",arial,"apple color emoji","segoe ui emoji","segoe ui symbol","noto color emoji";font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(33,33,33)"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://chat.openai.com/share/649bd4ca-f856-451e-83a2-01fc2cfe47fb"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://chat.openai.com/share/649bd4ca-f856-451e-83a2-01fc2cfe47fb</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 6:50 AM
glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I
guess the question returns to one's criteria for assuming
decoupling between the very [small|fast] and the very
[large|slow]. Or in this case, the inner vs. the outer:<br>
<br>
Susie Alegre on how digital technology undermines free thought<br>
<a
href="https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/03/interview-susie-alegre/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/03/interview-susie-alegre/</a><br>
<br>
It would be reasonable for Frank to argue that we can generate
the space of possible context definitions, inductively, from
the set of token definitions, much like an LLM might. Ideally,
you could then measure the expressiveness of those inferred
contexts/languages and choose the largest (most complete; by
induction, each context/language *should* be self-consistent
so we shouldn't have to worry about that).<br>
<br>
And if that's how things work (I'm not saying it is), then
those "attractors" with the finest granularity (very slow to
emerge, very resistant to dissolution) would be the least
novel. Novelty (uniqueness) might then be defined in terms of
fragility, short half-life, missable opportunity. But that
would also argue that novelty is either less *real* or that
the universe/context/language is very *open* and the path from
fragile to robust obtains like some kind of Hebbian
reinforcement, use it or lose it, win the hearts and minds or
dissipate to nothing.<br>
<br>
I.e. there is no such thing as free thought. Thought can't
decouple from social manipulation.<br>
<br>
On 3/21/24 13:38, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
> In the LLM example, completions from some starting state
or none, have specific probabilities. An incomplete
yet-unseen (unique) utterance would be completed based on
prior probabilities of individual tokens.<br>
> <br>
> I agree that raw materialist uniqueness won't necessarily
or often override constraints of a situation. For example, if
an employer instructs an employee how to put a small,
lightweight product in a box, label it, and send it to a
customer by UPS, the individual differences metabolism of the
employees aren't likely to matter much when shipping more
small, lightweight objects to other customers. It could be
the case for a professor and student too. The attractors
come from the instruction or the curriculum. One choice
constrains the next.<br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of glen<br>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 11:50 AM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] the inequities of uniquity<br>
> <br>
> I was arguing with that same friend yesterday at the pub.
I was trying to describe how some of us have more cognitive
power than others (he's one of them). Part of it is "free"
power, freed up by his upper middle class white good diet
privilege. But if we allow that some of it might be genetic,
then that's a starting point for deciding when novelty matters
to the ephemerides of two otherwise analogical individuals (or
projects if projects have an analog to genetics). Such things
are well-described in twin studies. One twin suffers some PTSD
the other doesn't and ... boom ... their otherwise lack of
uniqueness blossoms into uniqueness.<br>
> <br>
> His objection was that even identical twins are not
identical. They were already unique ... like the Pauli
Exclusion Principle or somesuch nonsense. Even though it's a
bit of a ridiculous argument, I could apply it to your sense
of avoiding non-novel attractors. No 2 attractors will be
identical. And no 1 attractor will be unique. So those are
moot issues. Distinctions without differences, maybe. Woit's
rants are legendary. But some of us find happiness in wasteful
sophistry.<br>
> <br>
> What matters is *how* things are the same and how they
differ. Their qualities and values (nearly) orthogonal to
novelty.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 3/21/24 11:29, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
>> If GPT systems capture some sense of "usual" context
based on trillions of internet tokens, and that corpus is
regarded approximately "global context", then it seems not so
objectionable to call "unusual", new training items that
contribute to fine-tuning loss.<br>
>><br>
>> It seems reasonable to worry that ubiquitous GPT
systems reduce social entropy by encouraging copying instead
of new thinking, but it could also have the reverse effect:
If I am immediately aware that an idea is not novel, I may
avoid attractors that agents that wrongly believe they are
"independent" will gravitate toward.<br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of glen<br>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 7:49 AM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] the inequities of uniquity<br>
>><br>
>> A friend of mine constantly reminds me that language
is dynamic, not fixed in stone from a billion years ago. So,
if you find others consistently using a term in a way that you
think is wrong, then *you* are wrong in what you think. The
older I get, the more difficult it gets.<br>
>><br>
>> But specifically, the technical sense of "unique" is
vanishingly rare ... so rare as to be merely an ideal,
unverifiable, nowhere, non-existent. So if the "unique" is
imaginary, unreal, and doesn't exist, why not co-opt it for a
more useful, banal purpose? Nothing is actually unique. So
we'll use the token "unique" to mean (relatively) rare.<br>
>><br>
>> And "unusual" is even worse. Both tokens require one
to describe the context, domain, or universe within which the
discussion is happening. If you don't define your context,
then the "definitions" you provide for the components of that
context are not even wrong; they're nonsense. "Unusual"
implies a usual. And a usual implies a perspective ... a
mechanism of action for your sampling technique. So "unusual"
presents even more of a linguistic *burden* than "unique".<br>
>><br>
>> On 3/20/24 13:14, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br>
>>> What's wrong with "unusual"? It avoids the
problem.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 1:55 PM Steve Smith <<a
href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I'm hung up on the usage of qualified
"uniqueness" as well, but in perhaps the opposite sense.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I agree with the premise that "unique"
in it's purest, simplest form does seem to be inherently
singular. On the other hand, this mal(icious) propensity of
qualifying uniqueness (uniqueish?) is so common, that I have
to believe there is a concept there which people who use those
terms are reaching for. They are not wrong to reach for it,
just annoying in the label they choose?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I had a round with GPT4 trying to
discuss this, not because I think LLMs are the authority on
*anything* but rather because the discussions I have with them
can help me brainstorm my way around ideas with the LLM
nominally representing "what a lot of people say" (if not
think). Careful prompting seems to be able to help narrow
down *all people* (in the training data) to
different/interesting subsets of *lots of people* with certain
characteristics.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> GPT4 definitely wanted to allow for a
wide range of gradated, speciated, spectral uses of "unique"
and gave me plenty of commonly used examples which validates
my position that "for something so obviously/technically
incorrect, it sure is used a lot!"<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> We discussed uniqueness in the context
of evolutionary biology and cladistics and homology and
homoplasy. We discussed it in terms of cluster analysis. We
discussed the distinction between objective and subjective,
absolute and relative.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The closest thing to a conclusion I
have at the moment is:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 1. Most people do and will continue to
treat "uniqueness" as a relative/spectral/subjective
qualifier.<br>
>>>> 2. Many people like Frank and myself
(half the time) will have an allergic reaction to this usage.<br>
>>>> 3. The common (mis)usage might be
attributable to conflating "unique" with "distinct"?<br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ<br>
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