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<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 29, 2024, at 7:18 AM, Marcus Daniels <marcus@snoutfarm.com> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> I think a multi-story data center in a spar, like a deep water oil rig. Stabilizing power could be available from land since it would need to deliver power to land. The Morro bay surface water temperature is between 52 to 64F.
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<a href="https://www.hofmann-heatexchanger.com/solutions/plate-heat-exchanger-for-marine">https://www.hofmann-heatexchanger.com/solutions/plate-heat-exchanger-for-marine</a><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 29, 2024, at 3:47 AM, David Eric Smith <desmith@santafe.edu> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> I wonder:
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<div>Can you spin any large weight fast enough to get some gyroscopic stabilization over orientation?</div>
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<div>I think about the large gangly designs that are favored for horizontal axis-of-rotation windmills, and think they will not respond nicely to twisting deformations. It is one thing to put anchors in like guywires to keep the location fixed. But depending
on how high they want to reach, orientation is another matter, and underwater currents are not helpful for orientation if you are trying to tie something to a fixed surface location. The length of cable used for large, laterally-extended moorings will probably
admit some considerable flexibility. </div>
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<div>More likely they will just use sensors and active controls, using some of the power to run propellers to real-time noise-cancel water-current effects. As long as the computer doesn’t fail, you’re good.</div>
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<div>When we did ocean engineering in Texas, I learned what a hostile environment seawater is to _everything_ except maybe fish. Thinking about aging and Arecibo. </div>
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<div>Eric</div>
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<div>On Mar 28, 2024, at 3:51 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus@snoutfarm.com> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Way offshore in some cases, but also deep. Maybe the underwater mass could help hold the platform in place?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.aegirinsights.com%2foffshore-wind-in-california-faces-four-main-challenges-depth-waves-ports-and-grid-connection&c=E,1,ln9yoEowMSkBOcUiTtD5yBM3-7GL54AuCfrBPVIsSgK_uJY4W0NiQIo9S9EztwWqoPodyFcfgHpIOGMtxW4JEpEeK8QMD3FBC4yEWs9Qyo01b4g2&typo=1" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.aegirinsights.com/offshore-wind-in-california-faces-four-main-challenges-depth-waves-ports-and-grid-connection</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The moon idea reminds me of this center:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Region_Supercomputing_Center" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Region_Supercomputing_Center</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 12pt;">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> on
behalf of glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">gepropella@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 10:33 AM<br>
<b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">friam@redfish.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [FRIAM] death by ubiquity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Bandwidth might be a problem. But the dark side of the moon seems like an option ... assuming you can negotiate with the aliens that live over there.
The best thing about coral is you don't have to negotiate for their "land". You can just take it and let them die like the stupid little creatures they are.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/22/asia/south-china-sea-philippines-coral-reef-damage-intl-hnk/index.html" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/22/asia/south-china-sea-philippines-coral-reef-damage-intl-hnk/index.html</a><br>
<br>
On 3/28/24 10:17, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
> It's not really my thing, but I noticed there were several very large exhibits at Supercomputing 23 for cooling technology. Even immersive cooling solutions. I think that could be improved a lot. Without superconducting processors, I don't see how energy
use can be dramatically reduced though. For that there will just need to be new generation. Could put these near large off short windfarms..<br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.datacenterdynamics.com%2fen%2fnews%2fchina-deploys-1400-ton-commercial-underwater-data-center%2f&c=E,1,my_Hq7UP1DY0EhfS61pZn5RJJCzAg8osBKQ6cIkk3jbbbrvbvPDU4Rmooepe0lX-kcBMEO5x0FrlHshFbc1AiOAklI9J9-6G-D7m7s_TQ5h2BUqbcw,,&typo=1" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/china-deploys-1400-ton-commercial-underwater-data-center/</a><br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> I suppose there are some that would say gentrification is genocide -- a slow coerced displacement.<br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of glen<br>
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 9:49 AM<br>
> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] death by ubiquity<br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> Maybe. But way before that happens, it will(has) force(d) the disaffected (people, animals, plants) of any such region to die, move, or adapt.<br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> In the Gaza kerfuffle, I've heard some describe coerced displacement as "genocide". I guess the more reasonble term is ethnic cleansing. The settlers seem mostly fine with their ethnic cleansing agenda. But, by analogy, how would we describe the coercive
adaptation put upon a region by a massive water-sucking data center? Biology cleansing? If there really were an AI, would they worry about the forced displacement caused by their silicon incubators? ... or maybe "incubator" isn't a good word. How about "galls":<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Yeah,
that might be a good analogy. The machines are parasitic. They hijack the iDNA (information generators) of the local biology to form galls within which they grow and thrive.<br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> On 3/28/24 07:51, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
>> It will force innovation on energy-efficient microarchitecture (e.g. Groq) and on renewable power generation near data centers.<br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of glen<br>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 7:09 AM<br>
>> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
>> Subject: [FRIAM] death by ubiquity<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> As we frivolously replace meatspace conversation with obsequious chatbots, the world burns.<br>
>><br>
>> The industry more damaging to the environment than airlines<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/30/silicon-valley-data-giants-net-zero-sustainability-risk/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/30/silicon-valley-data-giants-net-zero-sustainability-risk/</a><br>
>><br>
>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.asce.org%2fpublications-and-news%2fcivil-engineering-source%2fcivil-engineering-magazine%2fissues%2fmagazine-issue%2farticle%2f2024%2f03%2fengineers-often-need-a-lot-of-water-to-keep-data-centers-cool&c=E,1,deIWovBwGjbkhQEUWpqOUvpinWvlSb1qWS0a45I_OXA8DpWR2L0bccHk0qU795SpGN5LLsoQGyPLPIwMtQluNygXDeiQ83GAvuM7YgQ9cj0zUM-F&typo=1" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.asce.org/publications-and-news/civil-engineering-source/civil-engineering-magazine/issues/magazine-issue/article/2024/03/engineers-often-need-a-lot-of-water-to-keep-data-centers-cool</a><br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<br>
--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ<br>
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(un)subscribe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,JbGenau4fmv0NX9rl2nRalEmilnGpFavBTi36uQNRC1eVYLwMShEfbbIy3_lozdy7e7yY9u44H5BS2nIRHHDmIS9zjLVSp8awJ0fmP7QEbmaHA,,&typo=1" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,JbGenau4fmv0NX9rl2nRalEmilnGpFavBTi36uQNRC1eVYLwMShEfbbIy3_lozdy7e7yY9u44H5BS2nIRHHDmIS9zjLVSp8awJ0fmP7QEbmaHA,,&typo=1</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,IzSImEDmbRT1GP7jxRI2Hi0UMfc6LoMYhojQ0wNkWplX4LvZrXtgKfbyODmGkjOilLOHoiA5bgqY5toV3KZOcHFnn8Nhaa8uNX9jkZ1T-zQsaDc,&typo=1" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,IzSImEDmbRT1GP7jxRI2Hi0UMfc6LoMYhojQ0wNkWplX4LvZrXtgKfbyODmGkjOilLOHoiA5bgqY5toV3KZOcHFnn8Nhaa8uNX9jkZ1T-zQsaDc,&typo=1</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">archives:
5/2017 thru present<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,xkIZmTOU3qYuYSjFh5COcuCGQj-MIzQVSz0Sn3wtysxbQdO5ATZreVQUBD9GOpYBj17pFyPh_zxP_COr86SoLv6qwr9T5uwUcS0EnOYi&typo=1" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,xkIZmTOU3qYuYSjFh5COcuCGQj-MIzQVSz0Sn3wtysxbQdO5ATZreVQUBD9GOpYBj17pFyPh_zxP_COr86SoLv6qwr9T5uwUcS0EnOYi&typo=1</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"> 1/2003
thru 6/2021 </span><a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a></div>
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<span>-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .</span><br>
<span>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br>
<span>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</span><br>
<span>to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span><br>
<span>FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span><br>
<span>archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</span><br>
<span> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span>-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .</span><br>
<span>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br>
<span>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</span><br>
<span>to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span><br>
<span>FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span><br>
<span>archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</span><br>
<span> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</span><br>
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</blockquote>
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