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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGayqou3nbSAB3itRw1p1p1u7WFbKOprTg2-MZf_bmL5ZhanOw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">In a similar vein:
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://xkcd.com/2945/" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://xkcd.com/2945/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- rec --</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Russel Munroe is so prolific and self-documenting, I wouldn't be
surprised if he hasn't (somewhere) documented/attributed the
myriad influences:</p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg">Killer Rabbit
of Caerbannog</a></p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGayqou3nbSAB3itRw1p1p1u7WFbKOprTg2-MZf_bmL5ZhanOw@mail.gmail.com"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at
9:49 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="msg-7993104787584141570">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Simulate
from first principles: <a href="https://www.vasp.at/"
id="m_5926388117352459039LPlnk899151" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.vasp.at/</a></div>
<div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_5926388117352459039divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>From:</b> Friam
<<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of Prof David West <<a
href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 13, 2024 6:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] new math of complexity</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Naive, but honest question:</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Can a computer program be
"complex?" Jochen seems to assert so,
<i>"Every developer knows that each piece of code which
is added makes the system more complex."</i> I would
say no, it only makes it more complicated.</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">My answer is partially
based on the fact that code must execute on a
deterministic machine and the code itself (at least its
compiled self) is nothing more than a virtual machine,
still a deterministic system. Even the source code is a
context free grammar, so none of the things that make
natural language complex (context sensitivity, metaphor,
interpolation) prevail. Otherwise the code would not
work?</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">A secondary motivation for
asking, I am working on an extended monograph/book on
how to intentionally 'evolve' complex systems like a
business and the software that supports it,or ULS (
<a
href="https://insights.sei.cmu.edu/library/ultra-large-scale-systems-the-software-challenge-of-the-future/"
id="m_5926388117352459039OWA6f17ce91-d11b-f16a-de0f-c57e633b83f5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://insights.sei.cmu.edu/library/ultra-large-scale-systems-the-software-challenge-of-the-future/</a> ),
i.e., systems that
<b><u>cannot</u></b> be "engineered."</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>On Wed, Jun 12, 2024, at 5:30 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Emergence as a kind of
“software in the natural world"? If we mean code by
it, then yes, certainly. Every developer knows that
each piece of code which is added makes the system
more complex. Therefore we usually try to keep it
simple. For biological systems it is the DNA code.
For cultural systems it is the hidden code people do
not want to talk about because everything related to
it is sacred (at least for the group which it
defines). The knights templar had their own code,
the order of the cistercians, the Franciscans and
the other religious orders and organizations as
well. </span></p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Cults and sects have their
code ( which can be simple political slogans such as
"Make Your Country Great Again", "Build the wall"
and "Lock them up" or simply "Do not criticize the
supreme leader"). Criminal organizations have their
code. Ideologies and political parties have their
code. Behind every complex organism or organization
there seems to be some form of code or DNA that
generates and maintains it. </span></p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Whenever something is
happening in nature it is either supper or pairing
time. Obviously because the underlying "selfish"
code has created bodies which have the directive to
maintain and replicate themselves. If we look at
cultural systems, for instance at political
conventions or at religious congregations, then we
notice that every time something is really happening
at a larger scale is that the code becomes active.
People come together to read or express laws, rules,
guidelines and policies.</span></p>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</p>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">So I would say yes, if
there is a secret then it is the code. Definitely.
Is there a new math for it? IMO it is quite hard to
formulate the expression of such a code in general
mathematically. For example how can you describe
mathematically if the speech of a president or party
leader or priest has bigger consequences or not? It
is at least as complicated as calculating a path
integral in Quantum Field Theory.</span></p>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</p>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">What might be possible is
to calculate a probability how a group behavior
changes depending how frequent a rule is read,
remembered and expressed.</span></p>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</p>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">-J.</span></p>
<p
style="direction:ltr;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<div align="left">
<div style="direction:ltr;color:rgb(0,0,0)">--------
Original message --------</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;color:rgb(0,0,0)">From:
Roger Critchlow <<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rec@elf.org</a>></div>
<div style="direction:ltr;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Date:
6/12/24 8:05 PM (GMT+01:00)</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;color:rgb(0,0,0)">To: The
Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:Friam@redfish.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Friam@redfish.com</a>></div>
<div style="direction:ltr;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Subject:
[FRIAM] new math of complexity</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Speaking of emergence, any
takes on Phillip Ball's article in Quanta?</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a
href="https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-new-math-of-how-large-scale-order-emerges-20240610/"
id="m_5926388117352459039OWA9b250998-2971-066c-07f2-8aa914dff838"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-new-math-of-how-large-scale-order-emerges-20240610/</a></div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">I really liked his summary of
the current non-explanations for emergence, but I
haven't had time to read further.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">-- rec --</div>
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