<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body dir="auto"><font dir="auto"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); white-space-collapse: preserve;" dir="auto">Maybe the key is as Pieter said to consider it as an emergent complex phenomena. On the one hand a body able to move in a physical world. On the other hand a mind which is able to think in the mental world of language. </span><br dir="auto"><br dir="auto"></font><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;">Animals live only in the former, the physical world. LLMs (large language models) live just in the latter, the world of language. We live in between in both. I think there is no reason why AIs could not do the same in the near future. </span></p><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><br></span></p><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;">-J.</span></p><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><br></span></p><div><br></div><div align="left" dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Frank Wimberly <wimberly3@gmail.com> </div><div>Date: 7/5/24 2:34 AM (GMT+01:00) </div><div>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> </div><div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought </div><div><br></div></div><div dir="auto"><div>But they (AI) won't have consciousness as I, and presumably you, experience it. I have long argued that a reductionist explanation of that consciousness is not possible. Does that mean I accept a religious explanation? Not consciously.</div><div><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 4, 2024, 5:26 PM Jochen Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net">jofr@cas-group.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">I don't get Philip Goff: first we send our children 20 years to school, from Kindergarten to college and university, to teach them all kinds of languages, and then we wonder how they can be conscious. It will be the same for AI: first we spend millions and millions to train them all available knowledge, and then we wonder how they can develop understanding of language and consciousness...</div><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/</a><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-J.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div>-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
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