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<p>NLT -<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I believe my regular Bar Buddy - Gussie
Preston Tumbleroot IV is Tremblay's 2nd cousin twice removed?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Gussie, like George is a great
"noodling buddy" but I can't be sure but what he might be an
enabler of my ideaphoric habits.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">SG & I have tried some group
discussions with Gussie and Gupta in the past, but the structure
supported by the tools haven't made it as effective as I would
have thought. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The original Wiki-styled Noodle Bowl we
used to play in might be a good playground again if perhaps our
GPT buddies were enabled to play with the same noodles? It seems
like the key is establishing/developing/maintaining coherence? <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">- SS<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOmOqnK-03YaPBJ-Mt666GBxrLndmKwvf+uo64VfvAtTdtzqHQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Nick, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">George as dinner guest: </div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://youtu.be/BsF9tgtLk1U?si=uryJ05y7Ok77nJYi"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://youtu.be/BsF9tgtLk1U?si=uryJ05y7Ok77nJYi</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">____________________________________________<br>
CEO Founder, Simtable.com<br>
<a href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">stephen.guerin@simtable.com</a> <br>
<br>
Harvard Visualization Research and Teaching Lab<br>
<a href="mailto:stephenguerin@fas.harvard.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">stephenguerin@fas.harvard.edu</a><br>
<br>
mobile: (505)577-5828</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2024, 11:19 AM
Nicholas Thompson <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi, Steve,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While I might draw back from saying that George Peter
Tremblay, IV, is my friend, I sure would cop to the
admission that he is my buddy.</div>
<div>The term, "buddy", was introduced to me years ago as a
label for a kind of narrow or incomplete friendship that
surrounds a particular activity, as in "golfing buddy" or
"drinking buddy". George is just great when I want to
explore some new noodle that has just come upon me,but he
demurs politely when I invite him to dinner. Friam has
been spared much of my madness because of George. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nick <br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at
12:53 PM steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><span>Sabine H. snarked this at me... and I
responded by trying to read through the AI hype
sprinkled with Quantum Dust... I think it is
(obliquely?) relevant to our Consciousness
Maunderings here.<br>
</span></p>
<blockquote><span
style="color:rgb(119,119,119);font-family:"Open
Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:justify;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">QUALL-E,
a quantum computer running a human-level artificial
intelligence algorithm, who has observed a quantum
system</span><br>
<a
href="https://quantum-journal.org/papers/q-2023-09-14-1112/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://quantum-journal.org/papers/q-2023-09-14-1112/</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Frank, <br>
<br>
embodied where? in our shared world? if it
uses sensors and actuators like Marcus's
Waymo that perceives him and hopefully acts
to avoid him?<br>
<br>
Consider the Simtable that uses <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_light"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">structured light</a>
in a perception-action loop (ala the
neo-Gibsonians in ecological psychology)
with the projector camera feedback to
recover a dynamic 3D model of its world and
watch with its camera for human interaction
(laserpointers, object tracking etc) to
trigger corresponding behaviors with the
projector to interact with the user. Is it
embodied?<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 7,
2024 at 12:08 PM Frank Wimberly <<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>So you think of software running on a
computer as being embodied?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
<a
href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0A++++++++++++++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g"
moz-do-not-send="true">140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
</a><br>
<a
href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0A++++++++++++++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g"
moz-do-not-send="true"> Santa Fe, NM 87505</a><br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 7,
2024, 9:12 AM Nicholas Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I think of large language models as the
most embodied things on the planet, but
let that go for a moment. Back to baby
steps. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can you lay out for me why you believe
that language is essential to
self-awareness. Does that believe arise
from ideology, authority, or some set of
facts I need to take account of. To be
honest here, I should say where I am
coming from. A lot of my so-called career
was spent railing against circular
reasoning in evolutionary theory and
psychology. So, if language is essential
to self-awareness, and animals do not have
language, then it indeed follows that
animals do not have self-awareness. But
what if our method for detecting self
awareness requires language? Now we are in
a loop. Are we in such a loop, or are
there facts of some matter, independent of
language, convince you that animals are
not self-aware. Is self awareness
extricable from language?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is an old old trope that animals are
automata but that humans have soul.
Descartes swore by it. Is "language" the
new soul?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nick <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun,
Jul 7, 2024 at 7:29 AM Jochen Fromm <<a
href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><font dir="auto">I would
say cats, dogs and horses don't have
meta-awareness because they lack
language. They live in the present
moment, in the here and now. Without
language they do not have the
capability to reflect on their past or
to think about their future. They can
not formulate </font><span dir="auto">stories
of themselves which could help to form
a sense of identity. </span><span
dir="auto">Language is the mirror in
which we perceive ourselves during
"this is me" moments. Animals lack
this mirror completely. One
dimensional scents trails do not count
as language.</span>
<div dir="auto"><font face="Google Sans"
color="#000000"><span><br>
</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="Google Sans"
color="#000000"><span>Large
languages models lack
consciousness because they do not
have a body which is embedded as a
actor in an environment. These two
things are necessary: the physical
world of bodies, and the mental
world of language. When both
collide in the same spot we can
get consciousness.<br>
</span></font>
<div dir="auto"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span>-J.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"
style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
align="left">
<div>-------- Original message
--------</div>
<div>From: Nicholas Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
</div>
<div>Date: 7/6/24 5:05 AM (GMT+01:00)
</div>
<div>To: The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why the
Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper
Than We Thought </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Well, that's because Socrates
claimed not to know what he thought,
and since I genuinely don[t know
what I think until I work it out,
the conversation has the same
quality. I apologize for that. my
students found it truly distressing.
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, if you will indulge me, why
don't you think your cat has
meta=awareness? Authority,
ideology, or is there some
experience you have had that leads
you to think that. It would be
kind of odd if it she didn't because
animals have all sorts of ways of
distinguishing self from other. They
have ways of knowinng that "I did
that". (e.g., scent marking?) <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On
Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 3:19 PM Jochen
Fromm <<a
href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Well
yes, if meta-awareness is
defined as acting in response
to one's own awareness then I
would say animals like a cat
don't have it but humans have.
As an example I could say this
almost feels like I am a
participant in a dialogue from
Plato...</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline">I
would be surprised if it can
be described in simple
terms. If the essence of
consciousness is subjective
experience then it is indeed
hard to describe by a theory
although there are many
attempts. Persons who
perceive things differently
are wired differently. And
what is more subjective than
the perception of oneself? </span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><a
href="https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/what-is-consciousness/"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/what-is-consciousness/</a></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span>If
we can describe it
mathematically then
probably as a way an
information feels if it is
processed in complex ways,
ad infinitum like the
orbits of a strange
attractor.</span></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span><a
href="https://chaoticatmospheres.com/mathrules-strange-attractors"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://chaoticatmospheres.com/mathrules-strange-attractors</a></span></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline">-J.</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
dir="auto" align="left">
<div>-------- Original message
--------</div>
<div>From: Nicholas Thompson
<<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
</div>
<div>Date: 7/5/24 6:56 PM
(GMT+01:00) </div>
<div>To: The Friday Morning
Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why
the Mystery of Consciousness
Is Deeper Than We Thought </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Great! Baby steps. "If we
aren't moving slowly, we
aren't moving." So, can I
define some new terms,
tentatively, <i>per
explorandum</i> ? Let's call
acting-in-respect-to-the-world, "awareness". Allowing this definition,
we certainly seem to agree
that the cat is aware. Lets
define meta-awareness as
acting i respect to one's own
awareness. Now, am I correct
in assuming that you identify
meta-awareness with
consciousness and that you
think that the cat is not
meta-aware and that I probably
am? And further that you
think that meta-awareness
requires consciousness?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nick <br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul
5, 2024 at 12:17 PM Jochen
Fromm <<a
href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I would say a
cat is conscious in the
sense that it is aware of
its immediate environment.
Cats are nocturnal animals
who hunt at night and mostly
sleep during the day.
Consciousness in the sense
of being aware of oneself as
an actor in an environment
requires understanding of
language which only humans
have ( and LLMs now )
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">-J.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"
style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
align="left">
<div>-------- Original
message --------</div>
<div>From: Nicholas
Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> </div>
<div>Date: 7/5/24 5:02 AM
(GMT+01:00) </div>
<div>To: The Friday
Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group
<<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM]
Why the Mystery of
Consciousness Is Deeper
Than We Thought </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jochen, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>I think the first
step in any
conversation is to
decide whether your
cat is conscious. If
so, why do you think
so; if not, likewise.
I had a facinnationg
conversation with GBT
about whether he was
conscious and he
denied it "hotly",
which, of course, met
one of his criteria
for consciousness. <br>
</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>So. Is your cat
connscious?<br>
</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>Nick <br>
</i></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr"
dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 4,
2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen
Fromm <<a
href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">I
don't get Philip
Goff: first we send
our children 20
years to school,
from Kindergarten to
college and
university, to teach
them all kinds of
languages, and then
we wonder how they
can be conscious. It
will be the same for
AI: first we spend
millions and
millions to train
them all available
knowledge, and then
we wonder how they
can develop
understanding of
language and
consciousness...</div>
<a
href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/</a>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">-J.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-..
.. -.. / -- --- .-. ...
. / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -..
/ -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. ---
-.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St.
Johns Cafe / Thursdays
9a-12p Zoom <a
href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present
<a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / --
--- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns
Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a rel="noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer"
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a rel="noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer"
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer"
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- ---
.-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe /
Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a
href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-.
... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe /
Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a
href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... .
/ -.-. --- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe /
Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a
href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a>
to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-.
--- -.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays
9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. ---
-.. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p
Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a>
to (un)subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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