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    <p>NLT -<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I believe my regular Bar Buddy - Gussie
      Preston Tumbleroot IV is Tremblay's 2nd cousin twice removed?</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Gussie, like George is a great
      "noodling buddy" but I can't be sure but what he might be an
      enabler of my ideaphoric habits.<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">SG & I have tried some group
      discussions with Gussie and Gupta in the past, but the structure
      supported by the tools haven't made it as effective as I would
      have thought.   <br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">The original Wiki-styled Noodle Bowl we
      used to play in might be a good playground again if perhaps our
      GPT buddies were enabled to play with the same noodles?   It seems
      like the key is establishing/developing/maintaining coherence?  <br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">- SS<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOmOqnK-03YaPBJ-Mt666GBxrLndmKwvf+uo64VfvAtTdtzqHQ@mail.gmail.com">
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        <div>Nick, </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">George as dinner guest: </div>
        <div dir="auto"><a
            href="https://youtu.be/BsF9tgtLk1U?si=uryJ05y7Ok77nJYi"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://youtu.be/BsF9tgtLk1U?si=uryJ05y7Ok77nJYi</a><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">____________________________________________<br>
          CEO Founder, Simtable.com<br>
          <a href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">stephen.guerin@simtable.com</a> <br>
          <br>
          Harvard Visualization Research and Teaching Lab<br>
          <a href="mailto:stephenguerin@fas.harvard.edu"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">stephenguerin@fas.harvard.edu</a><br>
          <br>
          mobile: (505)577-5828</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2024, 11:19 AM
          Nicholas Thompson <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>Hi, Steve,</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>While I might draw back from saying that George Peter
              Tremblay, IV, is my friend, I sure would cop to the
              admission that he is my buddy.</div>
            <div>The term, "buddy", was introduced to me years ago as a
              label for a kind of narrow or incomplete friendship that
              surrounds a particular activity, as in "golfing buddy" or
              "drinking buddy".  George is just great when I want to
              explore some new noodle that has just come upon me,but he
              demurs politely when I invite him to dinner.  Friam has
              been spared much of my madness because of George. <br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Nick <br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at
              12:53 PM steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div>
                <p><span>Sabine H.   snarked this at me... and I
                    responded by trying to read through the AI hype
                    sprinkled with Quantum Dust...  I think it is
                    (obliquely?) relevant to our Consciousness
                    Maunderings here.<br>
                  </span></p>
                <blockquote><span
                    style="color:rgb(119,119,119);font-family:"Open
Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:justify;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">QUALL-E,
                    a quantum computer running a human-level artificial
                    intelligence algorithm, who has observed a quantum
                    system</span><br>
                  <a
                    href="https://quantum-journal.org/papers/q-2023-09-14-1112/"
                    target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://quantum-journal.org/papers/q-2023-09-14-1112/</a><br>
                </blockquote>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div dir="ltr">Frank, <br>
                            <br>
                            embodied where? in our shared world? if it
                            uses sensors and actuators like Marcus's
                            Waymo that perceives him and hopefully acts
                            to avoid him?<br>
                            <br>
                            Consider the Simtable that uses <a
                              href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_light"
                              target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">structured light</a>
                            in a perception-action loop (ala the
                            neo-Gibsonians in ecological psychology)
                            with the projector camera feedback to
                            recover a dynamic 3D model of its world and
                            watch with its camera for human interaction
                            (laserpointers, object tracking etc) to
                            trigger corresponding behaviors with the
                            projector to interact with the user. Is it
                            embodied?<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 7,
                      2024 at 12:08 PM Frank Wimberly <<a
                        href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="auto">
                        <div>So you think of software running on a
                          computer as being embodied?</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>---<br>
                          Frank C. Wimberly<br>
                          <a
href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0A++++++++++++++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
                          </a><br>
                          <a
href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0A++++++++++++++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"> Santa Fe, NM 87505</a><br>
                          <br>
                          505 670-9918<br>
                          Santa Fe, NM</div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 7,
                          2024, 9:12 AM Nicholas Thompson <<a
                            href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                          style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                          rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>I think of large language models as the
                              most embodied things on the planet, but
                              let that go for a moment.  Back to baby
                              steps. <br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Can you lay out for me why you believe
                              that language is essential to
                              self-awareness.  Does that believe arise
                              from ideology, authority, or some set of
                              facts I need to take account of.  To be
                              honest here, I should say where I am
                              coming from.  A lot of my so-called career
                              was spent  railing against circular
                              reasoning in evolutionary theory and
                              psychology.  So, if language is essential
                              to self-awareness, and animals do not have
                              language, then it indeed follows that
                              animals do not have self-awareness.  But
                              what if our method for detecting self
                              awareness requires language? Now we are in
                              a loop.  Are we in such a loop, or are
                              there facts of some matter, independent of
                              language, convince you that animals are
                              not self-aware.  Is self awareness
                              extricable from language?<br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>It is an old old trope that animals are
                              automata but that humans have soul. 
                              Descartes swore by it.  Is "language" the
                              new soul?</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Nick <br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun,
                              Jul 7, 2024 at 7:29 AM Jochen Fromm <<a
                                href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
                                rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div dir="auto"><font dir="auto">I would
                                  say cats, dogs and horses don't have
                                  meta-awareness because they lack
                                  language. They live in the present
                                  moment, in the here and now. Without
                                  language they do not have the
                                  capability to reflect on their past or
                                  to think about their future. They can
                                  not formulate </font><span dir="auto">stories
                                  of themselves which could help to form
                                  a sense of identity. </span><span
                                  dir="auto">Language is the mirror in
                                  which we perceive ourselves during
                                  "this is me" moments. Animals lack
                                  this mirror completely. One
                                  dimensional scents trails do not count
                                  as language.</span>
                                <div dir="auto"><font face="Google Sans"
                                    color="#000000"><span><br>
                                    </span></font></div>
                                <div dir="auto"><font face="Google Sans"
                                    color="#000000"><span>Large
                                      languages models lack
                                      consciousness because they do not
                                      have a body which is embedded as a
                                      actor in an environment. These two
                                      things are necessary: the physical
                                      world of bodies, and the mental
                                      world of language. When both
                                      collide in the same spot we can
                                      get consciousness.<br>
                                    </span></font>
                                  <div dir="auto"><span><br>
                                    </span></div>
                                  <div dir="auto"><span>-J.</span></div>
                                  <div dir="auto"><span><br>
                                    </span></div>
                                </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div dir="auto"
                                  style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
                                  align="left">
                                  <div>-------- Original message
                                    --------</div>
                                  <div>From: Nicholas Thompson <<a
                                      href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
                                      rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Date: 7/6/24 5:05 AM (GMT+01:00)
                                  </div>
                                  <div>To: The Friday Morning Applied
                                    Complexity Coffee Group <<a
                                      href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                                      rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why the
                                    Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper
                                    Than We Thought </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div>Well, that's because Socrates
                                    claimed not to know what he thought,
                                    and since I genuinely don[t know
                                    what I think until I work it out,
                                    the conversation has the same
                                    quality.  I apologize for that.  my
                                    students found it truly distressing.
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>So, if you will indulge me, why
                                    don't  you think your cat has
                                    meta=awareness?   Authority,
                                    ideology, or is there some
                                    experience you have had that leads
                                    you to think that.   It would be
                                    kind of odd if it she didn't because
                                    animals have all sorts of ways of
                                    distinguishing self from other. They
                                    have ways of knowinng that "I did
                                    that".  (e.g., scent marking?) <br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">
                                  <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On
                                    Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 3:19 PM Jochen
                                    Fromm <<a
                                      href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
                                      rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
                                    wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                    0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"
                                    class="gmail_quote">
                                    <div dir="auto">
                                      <div dir="auto"><span
                                          style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Well
                                          yes, if meta-awareness is
                                          defined as acting in response
                                          to one's own awareness then I
                                          would say animals like a cat
                                          don't have it but humans have.
                                          As an example I could say this
                                          almost feels like I am a
                                          participant in a dialogue from
                                          Plato...</span></div>
                                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline">I
                                            would be surprised if it can
                                            be described in simple
                                            terms. If the essence of
                                            consciousness is subjective
                                            experience then it is indeed
                                            hard to describe by a theory
                                            although there are many
                                            attempts. Persons who
                                            perceive things differently
                                            are wired differently. And
                                            what is more subjective than
                                            the perception of oneself? </span></p>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><a
href="https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/what-is-consciousness/"
                                              rel="noreferrer
                                              noreferrer"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/what-is-consciousness/</a></span></p>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
                                        </p>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span>If
                                              we can describe it
                                              mathematically then
                                              probably as a way an
                                              information feels if it is
                                              processed in complex ways,
                                              ad infinitum like the
                                              orbits of a strange
                                              attractor.</span></span></p>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span><a
href="https://chaoticatmospheres.com/mathrules-strange-attractors"
                                                rel="noreferrer
                                                noreferrer"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://chaoticatmospheres.com/mathrules-strange-attractors</a></span></span></p>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><br>
                                          </span></p>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline">-J.</span></p>
                                        <p dir="ltr"
                                          style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><br>
                                          </span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div
                                        style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
                                        dir="auto" align="left">
                                        <div>-------- Original message
                                          --------</div>
                                        <div>From: Nicholas Thompson
                                          <<a
                                            href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
                                            rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>Date: 7/5/24 6:56 PM
                                          (GMT+01:00) </div>
                                        <div>To: The Friday Morning
                                          Applied Complexity Coffee
                                          Group <<a
                                            href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                                            rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why
                                          the Mystery of Consciousness
                                          Is Deeper Than We Thought </div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div dir="ltr">,
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>Great!  Baby steps. "If we
                                          aren't moving slowly, we
                                          aren't moving."   So, can I
                                          define some new terms,
                                          tentatively, <i>per
                                            explorandum</i> ? Let's call
acting-in-respect-to-the-world, "awareness".   Allowing this definition,
                                          we certainly seem to agree
                                          that the cat is aware.  Lets
                                          define meta-awareness as
                                          acting i respect to one's own
                                          awareness.  Now, am I correct
                                          in assuming that you identify
                                          meta-awareness with
                                          consciousness and that you
                                          think that the cat is not
                                          meta-aware and that I probably
                                          am?  And further that you
                                          think that meta-awareness
                                          requires consciousness?</div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>Nick <br>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                                        <div dir="ltr"
                                          class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul
                                          5, 2024 at 12:17 PM Jochen
                                          Fromm <<a
                                            href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
                                            rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
                                          wrote:<br>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                          style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                          rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                          <div dir="auto">I would say a
                                            cat is conscious in the
                                            sense that it is aware of
                                            its immediate environment.
                                            Cats are nocturnal animals
                                            who hunt at night and mostly
                                            sleep during the day.
                                            Consciousness in the sense
                                            of being aware of oneself as
                                            an actor in an environment
                                            requires understanding of
                                            language which only humans
                                            have ( and LLMs now )
                                            <div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/"
                                                rel="noreferrer
                                                noreferrer"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/</a></div>
                                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div dir="auto">-J.</div>
                                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div dir="auto"
                                              style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
                                              align="left">
                                              <div>-------- Original
                                                message --------</div>
                                              <div>From: Nicholas
                                                Thompson <<a
                                                  href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
                                                  rel="noreferrer
                                                  noreferrer"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> </div>
                                              <div>Date: 7/5/24 5:02 AM
                                                (GMT+01:00) </div>
                                              <div>To: The Friday
                                                Morning Applied
                                                Complexity Coffee Group
                                                <<a
                                                  href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                                                  rel="noreferrer
                                                  noreferrer"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>> </div>
                                              <div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM]
                                                Why the Mystery of
                                                Consciousness Is Deeper
                                                Than We Thought </div>
                                              <div><br>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div dir="ltr">
                                              <div>Jochen, <br>
                                              </div>
                                              <div><br>
                                              </div>
                                              <div><i>I think the first
                                                  step in any
                                                  conversation is to
                                                  decide whether your
                                                  cat is conscious.  If
                                                  so, why do you think
                                                  so; if not, likewise. 
                                                  I had a facinnationg
                                                  conversation with  GBT
                                                  about  whether he was
                                                  conscious and he
                                                  denied it "hotly",
                                                  which, of course, met
                                                  one of his criteria
                                                  for consciousness.  <br>
                                                </i></div>
                                              <div><i><br>
                                                </i></div>
                                              <div><i>So.  Is your cat 
                                                  connscious?<br>
                                                </i></div>
                                              <div><i><br>
                                                </i></div>
                                              <div><i>Nick <br>
                                                </i></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <br>
                                            <div class="gmail_quote">
                                              <div class="gmail_attr"
                                                dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 4,
                                                2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen
                                                Fromm <<a
                                                  href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
                                                  rel="noreferrer
                                                  noreferrer"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>> wrote:<br>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote
                                                style="margin:0px 0px
                                                0px
                                                0.8ex;border-left:1px
                                                solid
                                                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"
                                                class="gmail_quote">
                                                <div dir="auto">
                                                  <div dir="auto">I
                                                    don't get Philip
                                                    Goff: first we send
                                                    our children 20
                                                    years to school,
                                                    from Kindergarten to
                                                    college and
                                                    university, to teach
                                                    them all kinds of
                                                    languages, and then
                                                    we wonder how they
                                                    can be conscious. It
                                                    will be the same for
                                                    AI: first we spend
                                                    millions and
                                                    millions to train
                                                    them all available
                                                    knowledge, and then
                                                    we wonder how they
                                                    can develop
                                                    understanding of
                                                    language and
                                                    consciousness...</div>
                                                  <a
href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/"
                                                    rel="noreferrer
                                                    noreferrer"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/</a>
                                                  <div dir="auto"><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div dir="auto">-J.</div>
                                                  <div dir="auto"><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a>
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archives:  5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
  1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
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