<div dir="ltr"><div>Oh, and, the project is to describe experiences that would lead to one conclusion or anotherj.</div><div><br></div><div>Here is an example If you play a dog's bark back to him, does he respond as if it's the bark of an intruder? <br></div><div>If not, that suggest some sort of self recognition mechanism, given that the bark I give sounds a heluva lot different from the bark I would hear if if I were the hearer of my own bark.</div><div><br></div><div>Buts let's secure agreement on the first two propositions first:</div><div><br></div><div> There would seem to be two kinds of experiences necessary to support the idea that A is conscious of B.</div><div>Stories that suggest that A moves in relation to and in anticipation of B;s movements.</div><div>And, Stories that suggest that A's movements in relation to B are nnot movements deployed to every othe member of the class A without discrimination. </div><div><br></div><div>i,e, that A is conscious B distinctly.</div><div><br></div><div>Nick <br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 12:43 PM Nicholas Thompson <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi, Prof Dave n all, <br></div><div><br></div><div>I would like us to come back to this point:</div><div><br></div><div>
<div style="margin-left:40px"><i><font size="1"><b>Is Dusty (Dave) conscious of Dave (Dusty).</b></font></i></div><div style="margin-left:40px"><i><font size="1"><b>Is Dusty (Dave) conscious of Dusty (Dave).</b></font></i></div><font size="2">Using our progress around the word Love, I feel like we ought to be able to agree on the first two propositions. We agree that the two particiants are consciouus of one another. <br></font></div><div><font size="2"><br></font></div><div><font size="2">So, if I am correct about that, could we move on to dis cuss the second pair, whether each of the two is conscious of themself. <br></font></div><div><font size="2"><br></font></div><div><font size="2">This is really truicky and, to be honest, I have no idea where it comes out. <br></font></div><div><font size="2"><br></font></div><div><font size="2">Nick<br></font>
</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 12:59 PM Nicholas Thompson <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>[Please, Friammers,, if you join this discussion, stay close to this or other closely related down-to-earth experiences.</div><div><br></div><div>Dave, you offer as data: <br></div><div><br></div><div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><i><b><font size="1">Dave is sleepy and calm.<br></font></b></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><i><b><font size="1">Dusty is anxious and afraid.<br></font></b></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><i><b><font size="1">Dusty crawls onto Dave's shoulder and finds reassurance and security.<br></font></b></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><i><b><font size="1">Dave is tolerant and does not shove Dusty off bed.<br></font></b></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><i><b><font size="1">Dave senses Dusty's need for reassurance and rests his arm across her back and lets her stay as she is.<br></font></b></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><i><b><font size="1">Dusty relaxes and goes to sleep.</font></b></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><i><b><font size="1"><br></font></b></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2">You then offer the following guide to interpretation: <br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px">
<i><font size="1"><b>Love is not present in this transaction, unless you presume that a
series of prior interactions created a kind of meta-state of Lovingness
between the two <br></b></font></i></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2">I agree with you that love is a meta state in the sense that it is an arrangement of other behavioral states. So I will leave that alone. Having so stipulated, I think it is reasonable to say, on the basis of the data you set forth, that a meta-state of lovingness exists between you. (I would prefer to say you love one another, but partly in deference to SG, I will adopt your lingo.] To call your joint behavior loving is to perform an abduction. The test of an abduction is to examine the deductions that flow from it: <br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2">So, if Dave and Dusty have a loving relationship, then, on my understanding, the following would be true: <br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><font size="1"><i><b>You would protect one another against harm.</b></i></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><font size="1"><i><b>You would attend to one another if either was sick, injured, or depressed.</b></i></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px"><font size="1"><i><b>You would become uneasy if you were separated for an unexpectedly long time.</b></i></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2">Are these things true?</font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2">Nick<br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:Arial;margin-left:40px;text-align:left"><i><font size="1"><b><br></b></font></i></div>
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