<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body dir="auto"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;" dir="auto">A bit paradox: consciousness and language enable us to leave the bubble of nowness in which animals live - as Carl Sagan said stories and books break the shackles of time - but the subjective experience of consciousness is always in the present moment.</span><div dir="auto"><font color="#000000"><span style="white-space-collapse: preserve;"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#000000"><span style="white-space-collapse: preserve;">By the way Joscha Bach is a member of the Bach family which goes back to J.S. Bach and C.P.E. Bach, the founders of classical music. I believe there are no descendants of Mozart or Beethoven anymore, but the Bach family is big, and still alive after so many centuries. Leipzig has turned the house where Bach lived in a museum which is worth visiting (Bonn has one for Beethoven).</span></font></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: "Google Sans"; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;" dir="auto"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: "Google Sans"; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;" dir="auto">-J.</span></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></div><div><br></div><div align="left" dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: steve smith <sasmyth@swcp.com> </div><div>Date: 7/16/24 10:14 PM (GMT+01:00) </div><div>To: friam@redfish.com </div><div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Joscha Bach claims Microsoft sentient but not conscious </div><div><br></div></div>
<p>My litany of examples of entities in my life all share the fact
of "living in a bubble of nowness". The fact that those bubbles
overlap to different degrees seems to contribute to our "mutual"
apprehension of one another's consciousness (not symmetric).<br>
</p>
<p>The non-animal entities at the best probably have very narrow
bubbles in space (2x their extent) and very wide in time (hours,
seasons, years) compared to ours. The (in)famous Black Mesa a
mile or so from me or Buckman Mesa (looming over me) in their
basaltic-plug geology would seem to have a geospatial bubble a
tiny fraction their dimension but a time apprehension of hundreds
of thousands of years? <br>
</p>
<p>I'm stretching the concept of "what means consciousness"
half-playfully and half-seriously. Seeking partly to niggle out
from the crowd how much of what we attribute to another entity's
"Consciousness" is highly projective of our own (self)
Consciousness?</p>
<p>OK... we do need to split the hair of "sentient" from "conscious"
I suppose... <br>
</p>
<p>Split Away!<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/15/24 7:46 PM, Jon Zingale wrote:<br>
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<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#333333" class="gmail_default">An
interesting collection of ideas regarding consciousness. For
instance, not meta cognition but immediate perception. A
bubble of nowness, etc... I am not certain if the lecture is
interesting, but it seemed relevant.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#333333" class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#333333" class="gmail_default"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLbHm-bJQE&t=908s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLbHm-bJQE&t=908s</a></div>
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