<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Stephen,<span> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Thank you for prompting me to respond to Dan’s scaling
questionaire.<span> </span>I tried to when I first
received it, but quit because I could not recognize my own thinking in most of the alternatives.<span> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">But you have asked me to be a good sport, so here I am.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">If you offer me, as in Q1 a choice between materialism
and dualism I am stumped.<span> </span>I am an avowed<span> </span>monist who believes that all monisms are more
or less equivalent – materialism, idealism, or<span>
</span>neutral), and I believe that dualism is one of the great mind-fucks of
all time,<span> </span>But I don’t<span> </span>think the brain has a damned thing to do with
the definition of consciousness and that it is disrespectful to brain research
to consider it in that way.<span> </span>So give me a
0.7 on Q1.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">So, on Q2, my response is stronger than the question allows.
<span> </span>Consciousness is not shaped by relations
to the environment, it IS one of them.<span> </span>So put
me down for a 1.2 on that one.<span> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">I think Q3 is just berserk.<span>
</span>I think the attribution, "X is conscious [of Y]" is a third-person
attribution.<span> </span>I can see that X is
responding to some portion of our shared experience.<span> </span>So, when attribute to myself, I am making a first-person attribution while adopting the perspective of a third-person.<span> </span>If we start with the belief that first-person attributions
must be, in principle, different from ordinary third-person ones, then we are
left with a “mystery" <span> </span>But, I don’t
think that;<span> </span>I think my concept of self
is just my attempt to model me from the outside<span>
</span>So,<span> </span>put me down for a zero on
this one. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">On Q4, I think my response is probably “meh” or <span> </span>“nu”.<span>
</span>On the one hand I agree that we need evidence at the level of a relation
to identify it, still we locate it at the individual.<span> </span>This is called metonomy and is frerquent in speach. For instance, we locate motivation in individuals at a momennt,but we know motivations from broad patterns in time and space. I am usually against that sort of thing, because it misdirects the attribution from the evidence for it. However, unlike”communication” <span> </span>which requires at least two conscious beings, consciousness
can be at a sentient being and directed toward a non-sentient one.<span> </span>I can be conscious of a rock.<span> </span>So, put me down as 0.5, I guess. <span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">As to the last question, I think there is a grammatical<span> </span>sleight of hand built into “What is it like
to be a …..?”<span> </span>Put the question in its
natural grammatical form and the answer becomes obvious<span> </span>“what is being<span> </span>Stephen Guerin like?”<span> " </span>It’s like running on a treadmill with jammed
on-off switch.<span>" </span>Notice that<span> </span>presented in its undistorted form, the answer
will be a reference to some experience that I would have.<span>
</span>The grammatical impersonal creates the mystery by throwing one off the
track.<span> </span>So, put me down as a zero.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">So, Stephen, I cannot bring myself to fill in the entries myself, but feel free to fill them in for me and report the results to whomever
you see fit.<span> </span>I share your admiration Professor
Gupta and will be eager to see what<span> </span>he
makes of it. <span><br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span> You said you would look in on THUAM tomorrow around .... what a minute .... when? I may be mixing up my time zones. <br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span>Nick <br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span><img width="593" height="575"></span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><span><img width="593" height="575"></span><span></span></p>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net">jofr@cas-group.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">I don't get Philip Goff: first we send our children 20 years to school, from Kindergarten to college and university, to teach them all kinds of languages, and then we wonder how they can be conscious. It will be the same for AI: first we spend millions and millions to train them all available knowledge, and then we wonder how they can develop understanding of language and consciousness...</div><a href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/" target="_blank">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/</a><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-J.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div>-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Nicholas S. Thompson</div><div>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology</div><div>Clark University<br></div></div></div>