<div dir="auto"><div>Re self-identification. We adopted our daughter in Mexico and moved from Pittsburgh to Santa Fe about a year later. When she came home after her first day of kindergarten at E. J. Martinez I asked her if there were other Hispanic kids in her class. She said, "I dunno".</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Based on the kids who became her friends I'd say they were oblivious to ethnicity.</div><div><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 8:30\u202fAM glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I'm in an ongoing argument with some of my salon goers about identity. People seem to straddle its multiple meanings for rhetorical (or confirmation biasing) purposes, fluidly switching one context/meaning for another so often and so fluidly as to prevent me from understanding whatever it is they're saying (or trying to avoid saying).<br>
<br>
Introspection is rife with such problems, including a six year old coming to some self-identification/registration as a member of some crisp class/category. The most recent Bad Faith rhetoric about identity had to do with "neurodivergent". There seems to be a trend amongst "the kids these days" to identify as autistic or ADHD. I mean, I was clearly "different" when I was a kid. We had identities like "head" (kid who does lots of drugs), "jock" (kids who spent lots of time in organized athletics), "brain" (kids who spent time doing chess, math, ...), etc. There was also a name for the [metal|wood|\u2026] shop kids. But I've forgotten it.<br>
<br>
Some of us were diagnosed with various labels including some words we're not supposed to say anymore. Many of my friends had such conditions. But none of us *identified* as those diagnoses. The diagnoses seemed almost orthogonal to the identities/tribes. (I happened to be a member of the heads, jocks, brains, and "band nerd" tribes; that multi-tribe crossover was part of what made me feel "different".) And each group had its share of the same diagnoses.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that our tech-associated, individualistic, isolation has driven "the kids" to over-emphasize their diagnoses, to adopt them as identities/tribes, identifying from the inside->out; whereas we (can't speak for anyone else, really) mostly identified from the outside->in. We were sorted by society. The kids these days seem more self-sorted. On the one hand, that could feel like increased liberty and free association. But on the other hand, it's like everyone is a home-schooled weirdo these days and nobody knows how to, for example, bite their tongue or avoid picking their nose in public.<br>
<br>
Not everybody needs to be a Hunter S Thompson, "neurodivergent", or whatever. Some of us should be allowed to identify as "normal". Introspection is a sickness.<br>
<br>
On 8/5/24 17:01, steve smith wrote:<br>
> I jumped straight to the Artistic meaning of /frottage/ as coined originally by Max Ernst and while not as an act of psychopathy, it does have strong implications for the psychological/subconscious implications in this context?<br>
> <br>
> In any case, I find it a compelling opening line of the /call me Ishmael/ caliber.<br>
> <br>
> On 8/5/24 10:04 AM, Prof David West wrote:<br>
>> This is very interesting, and timely. I am completing an autobiography/essay/monograph for which this will be quite relevant. The opening lines of the work:<br>
>><br>
>> /"An act of frottage triggered the self-recognition that I was a psychopath. I did not, of course, know either term or their meanings./<br>
>> /<br>
>> /<br>
>> /I was six." /<br>
>><br>
>> davew<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024, at 11:03 AM, glen wrote:<br>
>> > Progress or Pathology? Differential Diagnosis and Intervention Criteria<br>
>> > for Meditation-Related Challenges: Perspectives From Buddhist<br>
>> > Meditation Teachers and Practitioners<br>
>> > <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7403193/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7403193/</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Based on our conversation attempting to identify behavioral markers for<br>
>> > consciousness, I thought this paper might give some insight into Dave's<br>
>> > straddling of mystical and materialistic descriptions of experiences he<br>
>> > marks as conscious. In the paper, they lay out 11 levers for making the<br>
>> > distinction:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > \u2022 Circumstances of Onset<br>
>> > \u2022 Control<br>
>> > \u2022 Critical Attitude<br>
>> > \u2022 Cultural Compatibility<br>
>> > \u2022 Distress<br>
>> > \u2022 Duration<br>
>> > \u2022 Functional Impairment<br>
>> > \u2022 Health History or Condition<br>
>> > \u2022 Impact<br>
>> > \u2022 Phenomenological Qualities<br>
>> > \u2022 Teachers\u2019 Skills or Resources<br>
>> ><br>
>> > From my perspective that consciousness is a kind of fusion function,<br>
>> > Control, Critical Attitude, Distress, and Functional Impairment are<br>
>> > primary and the rest are secondary. The ability to (change one's) focus<br>
>> > of attention is a hallmark of consciousness, and those 4 levers<br>
>> > direclty target one's ability to focus. Duration may well be secondary<br>
>> > and the rest tertiary, I guess. Because there's something like a<br>
>> > half-life of controllability. If, say, you're a conspiracy theorist,<br>
>> > and you *entertain*, say, flat earth for long enough, maybe you'll lack<br>
>> > the ability to re-focus and don a critical attitude. Similarly, if you<br>
>> > embed into, say, procedural programming long enough, maybe you'll lose<br>
>> > the ability to re-focus and think functionally ... a kind of Functional<br>
>> > Impairment (sorry for the polysemy of "functional", there).<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
\ua66e M\u0265\u01ddu \u01ddl\u01ddd\u0265\u0250u\u0287s \u025f\u1d09\u0183\u0265\u0287' \u0287\u0265\u01dd \u0183\u0279\u0250ss sn\u025f\u025f\u01dd\u0279s\u02d9 \ua66e<br>
<br>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br>
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