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<span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>Marcus wrote: <br>
</o:p></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MN0PR11MB5985EC5B207DE5E3D801F293C5872@MN0PR11MB5985.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The recent
results about AI Models collapsing when trained on
recursively generated data seems to me to apply to this kind
of human political activity as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a
href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y</a></span></p>
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</blockquote>
I think the MAGA machine is collapsing under this weight as we
speak, and it may have risen in the wake of the a similar collapse
of it's parent GOP/TeaParty and it's antiChrist Liberal/Progressive
ness.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MN0PR11MB5985EC5B207DE5E3D801F293C5872@MN0PR11MB5985.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Btw, is
there a disagreeable LLM bot out there? Whenever I chat
with LLMs, I get a lot of accommodation. <br>
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Per "the other thread" here, I believe this design bias was
installed to "enhance coherence" but that it is "ham fisted" and
limits what human-LLM interaction is capable of.</p>
<p>In my open-ended experiments with LLMs (GPT in particular) I have
tried to steer it away from this as well as trying to renormalize
my own response to that amiability. I don't seek to pick fights
with it, but I work hard not to let it mollify me with flattery or
amiability.</p>
<p>I don't need the sinister "What are you doing Dave?" of HAL but I
do get very tired of it's obsequiousness, it takes work to balance
that I could put maybe more productively in seeking a more genuine
"coherence"?<br>
</p>
<p>I hope there is serious work going on there.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MN0PR11MB5985EC5B207DE5E3D801F293C5872@MN0PR11MB5985.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> on behalf of Frank
Wimberly <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"><wimberly3@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 5:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[FRIAM] This makes me think of this
list...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<h4
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-align:center;line-height:24.0pt"
align="center"><a
href="https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times
New
Roman",serif;font-weight:normal">Are
We Living in the Age of
Info-Determinism?</span></a><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times
New
Roman",serif;font-weight:normal"><o:p></o:p></span></h4>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:.25in;margin-left:0in;line-height:18.0pt"><em><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Increasingly,
our networks seem to be steering our
history in ways we don’t like and
can’t control.</span></em><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-line-height-alt:0pt"><a
href="https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times
New
Roman",serif;color:black;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img
style="width:.3333in;height:.3333in" id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:~WRD0000.jpg" alt="Image
removed by sender. Image may
contain: Person, Advertisement,
Poster, and Art"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="32"
height="32" border="0"></span></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:.25in;margin-left:0in;line-height:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a
href="https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.131897/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubmV3eW9ya2VyLmNvbS9jdWx0dXJlL29wZW4tcXVlc3Rpb25zL2FyZS13ZS1saXZpbmctaW4tdGhlLWFnZS1vZi1pbmZvLWRldGVybWluaXNtP3V0bV9zb3VyY2U9bmwmdXRtX2JyYW5kPXRueSZ1dG1fbWFpbGluZz1UTllfRGFpbHlfUGFpZF8wODEzMjQmdXRtX2NhbXBhaWduPWF1ZC1kZXYmdXRtX21lZGl1bT1lbWFpbCZ1dG1fdGVybT10bnlfZGFpbHlfZGlnZXN0JmJ4aWQ9NWJlYTE2MGQyNGMxN2M2YWRmMWQ5MGZmJmNuZGlkPTI2NjU3MDA0Jmhhc2hhPTAzYTY4YzE2MWY1ZDE2MzQ3OTQzY2YyMTk1NjkxMjkzJmhhc2hiPTgwNmExMmJmMjdhOTk5Njc5ZTEzM2Q5OGE4MDY4ZmFiM2IxOTQ3MjMmaGFzaGM9NWEwNDc2OGZhZmFiNDlhZjIxMDRlYTk4Mzc1NTExZDExYjE5MTU3ZTEyNWZiYWM1ZWY4YTdiMzM5YWY3NzFkZCZlc3JjPU9JRENfU0VMRUNUX0FDQ09VTlRfUEFHRSZtYmlkPUNSTU5ZUjA2MjQxOQ/5bea160d24c17c6adf1d90ffC4771ecbc"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Illustration
by Josie Norton</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#666666"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:.25in;margin-left:0in;line-height:18.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"inherit",serif">“Call it
info-determinism:</span></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"> the belief
that the ways that information flows
through the world are actually a kind
of web in which we’re ensnared,”
Joshua Rothman writes. The Internet
can make it feel as though information
is endless, and access can make
everyone feel like an expert—or, at
least, an expert subreddit debater.
The sense that there is always more to
know undermines the authority of an
article or an institution, as does the
thriving trade, among those debaters,
in the disassembly of ideas. Rothman’s
column, </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><a
href="https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Open
Questions</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">, unpacks
open-ended queries each week. Today,
he considers: What is information?
Does it matter if it’s true? Are we
trapped?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p
style="margin-bottom:.25in;text-align:center;line-height:18.0pt;min-height:48px"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><a
href="https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:white;background:black">Read
the story</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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