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<p>As usual, I am finding a strong hint of a whiff of something
profound in Glen's references here, but I will probably biff my
response/elaboration with my heady excitement: <br>
</p>
<p>I had to <i>find</i> Vico and refresh myself on Rawls: <br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p> <strong>Giambattista Vico</strong>, an 18th-century
philosopher best known for his work on the <strong>cyclical
nature of history</strong> and the importance of <strong>human
culture in shaping social laws</strong>. Vico believed that
history and society are not purely subject to rational,
mechanistic laws like those found in nature but are instead
shaped by human creativity, language, and culture. His work
emphasizes that <strong>humans create their own social
realities</strong> and that knowledge of society comes from
within the context of lived human experience, rather than
abstract, external analysis.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>John Rawls</strong>, a 20th-century political
philosopher known for his theory of <strong>justice as fairness</strong>.
In rapidly changing social contexts, a Rawlsian perspective
might emphasize <strong>fairness, equality, and social justice</strong>,
particularly through the use of the <strong>original position</strong>
and the <strong>veil of ignorance</strong>. These are thought
experiments where individuals design societal rules without
knowing their future position in society, ensuring fairness for
all, especially the most disadvantaged. Such ideas could shape
debates on how to manage fairness in dynamic social
transformations.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I definitely appreciate the (re)normalization of the more
familiar contemporary use of "elite" as some kind of slur or
dismissal. And the differentiation into "which elites to trust"
or perhaps more explicitely which *kind* of elites? And "why am I
susceptible to their influence, practical or emotional?"<br>
</p>
<p>I'd say that Musk (aka elno) present's multiple elite facets,
perhaps beginning with his "White South African youth during
Apartheid while reading too much old-fashioned SF and being driven
by strong-willed parents and subculture" to his serendipitous
entry into the growing .COM bubble of the late 90s and even more
serendipitous jump from that bubble to the one forming behind it
(Tech 2.0 ?) which seems to have become more of a (geologic style)
vesicle or even a biological style (where the robustness is
transitory and utilitarian?). <br>
</p>
<p>Since his abject wealth kicked in (late 2010s?) he seems to have
begun to approach that limit of "absolute wealth ==> absolute
corruption". Is the wealthiest jerkball on the planet by
definiition the absolutely wealthiest? I forget the rumors about
Putin that he is likely "abjectly" more wealthy than elno skum
hisself? Maybe by 1 or 2 digit factors? His disruption of at
least EVs and (recoverable) Orbital Launch (soon to include Moon
Landings and Mars Missions?) is another type of eliteism which is
a combination of tech and risk management? His parlay of these
dimensions of eliteism into social manipulation with Twitter/X and
now ffFFing presidential RealPolitik is an entirely new level
which I would claim rivals (mimics?) Trump's own ability to twist
(contemporary intersubjective) reality off it's existing axis
pretty effectively.</p>
<p>The variety of "elites" of interest might range from the likes of
well-known politicians of any stripe (from Cheneys to Clintons) to
well known Bureacratic figures (notably Anthony Fauci or Jerome
Powell or Ban ki-Moon) to social commentarians (Jon Stewart or
Michael Moore to Alex Jones and Anne Coulter) to (myriad) tech
commentators like Hossenfelder or Fridman or Rutt or Doctorow or
Levin or fictional/proxy movements like Antifa/Anonymous/Q ... I
probably missed wide swaths like Enviro/Climateers (Thunberg,
McKibben) or popFutureFictioneers (Stephenson, KSR, King, Atwood,
etc.) or PopSci influencers like Kurzweil or Chomsky or Wilson or
Gould or Dennett or Pollan or Dyson or Pinker or Diamond or
Gladwell or Harari or or or (ad nauseum)... <br>
</p>
<p>And as for Truth (or delusional belief?), the distinction between
physical reality (blurred as some would like it to be) and
intersubjective reality is significant (even if an acute illusion
as simulationists or interfaceinists (Hoffman) or
quantum-reality-ists or panpsychists (like DaveW and I?) or
...). The rhetorical world of (especially national?) Politics
seems to enhance this to the point that it sometimes feels as if
"nothing is real" even if most of us most of the time don't step
in front of busses nor eat wild-foraged fungi we haven't
identified carefully. </p>
<p>I also identify as an "almost dead privied white man" to perhaps
of a somewhat different stripe than Glen and I am starting to
*fear* that the "almost dead" horizon is moving away from me at a
pace that hasn't overtaken my own aging but might. Having just
had my first major bionic implant (excluding a good dozen dental
fillings/caps in my youth) and experiencing the ultra-high-tech
capability of modern surgical and diagnostic and imaging and
hospitalization Medicine, I am askeered that I will, as one of my
parent's generation quipped "have all the acute problems of
previous generations resolved until I find myself 'very old and
dying of nothing in particular'" which in fact is how my own
parents lived roughly 20 years past their expiry dates (as
projected in their youth to be 70 and 72). <br>
</p>
<p>No matter what my Whitelash Male-Rights friends might suggest, I
do feel much more "privied" than I ever realized as I was
experiencing the most acute experiences of it (in my
testosterone-driven ambitious years). <br>
</p>
<p>The biggest privilege seems to be to be "still alive" after one
or two digit percentage of my cohort no longer is (starting with
car crashes in our teens followed by military mishaps to
drug-related misdeeds, followed by any number of early health
challenges)... beyond that I feel privileged to live in "a
horrible country" (both Left and Right tell me this) under "the
worst form of government" and with a very bad record of
first-world disregard for third-world and non-human, non
mammalian, non-vertebrate, non-animal life and maybe even more
spectacular "the biosphere itself". Pretty soon, if ElnoSkum
(and JiffBozos and others) have their way we will begin the same
abuses beyond earth orbit (where it is already pretty trashy?)...
<br>
</p>
<p>I also feel "privied" that I "got in" on the Capitalist and
Homeowner game early/well enough in life to not worry about access
to basics (Bed, Bread, and Bath) with a small reserve to do things
like buy (well used, but not used up) automobiles that can drive
across the continent at the drop of a credit card and new (or
nearly) electronics only one generation behind the new and novel
and maintain good internet connectivity (though orders of
magnitude below that which I hear folks here claiming the have
and/or need?)... and now that Uncle Joe has blessed me with
Medicare (after 65) it appears I can trade some of the luxury end
of these other things for some basic medical care... and some
advanced as well (replace a joint or two at-will?). <br>
</p>
<p>While some of my public presentation might make me a good target
for Trump's second line Internment and Ejection camps in 2025, I
know I'll more likely die of old age (i.e. nothing in particular)
or a minor mistake in the hyper-cautious, high-tech world of
Medicine (or self driving Cars, or exploding electronic devices)
or bad judgement when dealing with my mains power or some jury
rigged Solar addition I make to it.</p>
<p>Re: Procreation. I'm glad to be living in these "interesting
times" and by extension am glad for my children (yet more privied
despite being "girlz" ) and grandchildren (probably both end up
a-gendered over time) to be living in "yet more" interesting
times? My parents were avid ZPG fans in the 50s and I carried it
forward with my own progeny opting for NPG (replacement rate
<.5). I don't know if I infected them with enough of my
"morbid fascination meme" to be enjoying the ride as we precess
into a wild tech-driven vortex of theTechnoSingularity that seems
now inevitable in their (if not my own) lifespan. Irony would
suggest that it is all going truly <i>HellInAHamburgerBasket</i>
the millisecond after Ray Kurzweil dies... The "fall line" of an
exponential curve is wherever you are standing at the moment
methinks?</p>
<p>As my peers all seek to flee TrumpAMurrica if he
slips-slides-slimes his way back into office I am thinking it is
my "civic duty" to stay put and "fight the good fight" even if it
is to be fodder for his cannons (or deportment Trebuchets?) or
inertial/viscous mass to slow down (stuck to the bottom of) the
tread of his JackBoots (with inserts to help with the bone
spurs)... I missed my chance in 1974 to expatriate myself and as
tempting as it sounds now, I also find pleasure in being the gum
in his gears if it comes to that. Or maybe after the Dems manage
to squeeze him back into the BrylCream tube he squirted out of I
can be the fodder/gum for *their* worst instincts? <br>
</p>
<p><i>Gramble</i>,</p>
<p> - Sieve<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/30/24 7:29 AM, glen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:82781f79-9015-4753-92ff-a24895e951c8@gmail.com">Yeah,
but the composition of physical laws up into the composites that
make up social laws isn't straightforward. Maybe I could stomach
the assumption of transitivity from, say, "biological laws" to
"social laws", but not physical laws to social laws. The
transitivity fails.
<br>
<br>
I can't tell where I actually land in the spectrum between Eric
and Dave's positions. I really like the idea that those who have
their hands inside the goo, inside the machine, close to the
metal, are the ones who decide how best to interact with the
machine. As Dave once accused, it's a bit Vico-ist. On the other
hand, our collective respect for (delusional belief in?) the Truth
fades faster each day. The elites are exhibiting faster rates of
churn. (E.g. Elno and SpaceX overturning tried and true,
"modernist", methods for engineering space machines. E.g. a
top-notch Data Science postdoc might cost a university ~$1M/yr,
which means they all abandon the academy and go to work for Google
or somesuch. Etc.)
<br>
<br>
And with such a turbulent churn of the elite production system,
it's completely reasonable to be confused about which elites to
trust - or which side of their mouth to trust. Luckily, I hold
Diogenes in high esteem, which allows me to doubt everything ...
regardless of EricC and Nick's claim that's impossible. So it's no
crisis for this almost-dead privied white man. But the kids? What
will they see on the other side of this Rawlsian Veil? I'm so
thankful I have no children.
</blockquote>
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