<div dir="ltr"><div>Steve <br></div><div><br></div><div>Sure. I will wait. As I think about the matter, it all seems to relate perhaps to Cosmides and Tooby's notion of emotions as mental modules that exist somewhere in the brain and can be passed down unaltered from generation to generation. But this always seemed to me a dishonest or ignorant reinvention of the concept of instinct which had been largely discredited in the thirties. <br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_m1x1otnq0" alt="image.png" width="488" height="252"><br><img src="cid:ii_m1x1s3xn1" alt="image.png" width="488" height="419"><br><img src="cid:ii_m1x1w1182" alt="image.png" width="416" height="488"><br><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 6:40 PM steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Nick -</p>
<p>I don't mind offering my sense of what the aphorism is all about,
I just want to give others a chance to chime in before I start
defending myself in my overly-voluminous manner. <br>
</p>
<p>Can you meet me half-way with *any* sense of signal in what you
are suggesting might be pure noise (or misdirection or a just-so
type story)? A rusty pot-metal man argument perhaps? (duck here
comes another SG/DALL-E rendering!)</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">I am trying not to be a jerk here, but maybe
jerkiness Is so centralto my being that I cannot avoid it.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I promise you, the question was not meant to be
(entirely)rhetorical. Glen has long since taught me that nobody
uses words for absolutely nothing and if you folks see some
meaning in that aphorism, there must be something to it. what is
that something?</div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Nicholas S. Thompson</div>
<div>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology</div>
<div>Clark University</div>
<div><a href="mailto:nthompson@clarku.edu" target="_blank">nthompson@clarku.edu</a></div>
<a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at
5:49 PM steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Nick -</p>
<p> And here I thought *I* was being "pithy", then you
call me out on my lithp?! ;^)</p>
<p> The strawman arguments have started coming out, I
wonder if anyone will gen up a steelman?</p>
<p>- tinman Steve</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 10/5/24 11:26 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>So in what sense and for what purposes is this
pithy aphorism useful? What exactly is the pith?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If a metaphor, what is truth in the metaphor, the
positive analog. Nobody ever said that all
metaphors are <i>entirely</i> wrong.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>and yes, I am being pissy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>n<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 5, 2024
at 11:04 AM steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote>
<p>All <i>Pithy Aphorisms</i> are wrong, some
are useful?<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<div>On 10/5/24 9:06 AM, Prof David West wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Arial">my affection for
the quote derives from a metaphorical reading,
not a literal one. Something akin to Steve's
differential rates of evolution. I also would
have eschewed 'god like' in favor of 'magical'
ala Clarke's dictum about any sufficiently
advanced technology.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>On Fri, Oct 4, 2024, at 8:46 PM, Nicholas
Thompson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="m_-537682141624710342m_-5382373058960130223m_3719146269230241149qt">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I think that this way of talking about
emotions precludes careful thought.
First of all, neurologizing emotions is
just to hide the pea under the wrong
thimble. I don't think paleolithologizig
helps much more. Glen is correct that,
whatever an emotion is, its inputs and
outputs are ontogenetically and culturally
determined. So, fear, for instance, is a
relation between something that we take to
be threatening and something that we hope
will be avoidance. Inputs and outputs are
everything. The rest is just arousal.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>N<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at
7:01 PM steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Emotions/Limbic systems evolve at
genetic rates, institutions evolve at <br>
</div>
<div> social/cultural rates (maybe the
fastest significant change can <br>
</div>
<div> happen/resolve is in multiple
lifetimes?) but technology is advancing
at <br>
</div>
<div> must faster rates?<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> Or is this wrong(headed) also?<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> On 10/4/24 3:43 PM, glen wrote:<br>
</div>
<div> > None of that is true, however
romantic it might sound. Depending on <br>
</div>
<div> > how one defines "emotion", that
smells the most true. But the <br>
</div>
<div> > mechanisms of emotion are as
coupled to current reality as is every <br>
</div>
<div> > part of our bodies. To suggest
that, say, the Space Force or methods <br>
</div>
<div> > like quantitative easing are
medieval is just nonsense. Technology is
<br>
</div>
<div> > more democratized than it has
ever been. Granted, it takes (a lot) of
<br>
</div>
<div> > work to familiarize oneself
with something like how GPS works or how
<br>
</div>
<div> > to NOT click on that phishing
email. But to suggest that it's <br>
</div>
<div> > "godlike" says more about the
person than it does about the state of <br>
</div>
<div> > technology.<br>
</div>
<div> ><br>
</div>
<div> > On 10/4/24 11:16, Prof David
West wrote:<br>
</div>
<div> >> /"The real problem of
humanity is the following: we have
Paleolithic <br>
</div>
<div> >> emotions, medieval
institutions, and godlike technology.
And it is <br>
</div>
<div> >> terrifically dangerous."/
Edward O. Wilson.<br>
</div>
<div> >><br>
</div>
<div> ><br>
</div>
<div> ><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
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<br>
<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Nicholas S. Thompson</div>
<div>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology</div>
<div>Clark University</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Nicholas S. Thompson</div><div>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology</div><div>Clark University</div><div><a href="mailto:nthompson@clarku.edu" target="_blank">nthompson@clarku.edu</a></div><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson</a></div></div>