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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>You know, I bet the U.S. will restart underground testing. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>steve smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 9, 2024 9:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 11/9/24 7:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Trump’s reads the room. If he feels his people would tolerate Russia using chemical weapons at a massive scale in Ukraine, then he’d be fine with that. Remember he was fine separating immigrant children from their parents. This property may well cause some deals to be made because they are afraid of the consequences. That’s not a skill in negotiation, that’s just the kind of terror that an organized crime boss might elicit. </span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>And some would conflate the two. I resist.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>The U.S. doesn’t have a boundless number of Tomahawk missiles to give Ukraine, even if we authorized firing into Russia. They run a couple million U.S. dollars each.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p>Most of which flows into US arms-manufacturer's corporate pockets and a little into the communities where they are manufactured (e.g. good jobs).<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><h3><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>1. <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Tomahawk Missiles</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></h3><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1'><strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Raytheon Missiles & Defense</span></strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'> manufactures Tomahawk missiles primarily in <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Tucson, Arizona</span></strong>. This facility focuses on producing a variety of precision-guided missiles, including the Tomahawk.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><h3><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>2. <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Javelin Anti-Tank Missiles</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></h3><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>The <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Javelin Joint Venture</span></strong>, a partnership between <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Raytheon and Lockheed Martin</span></strong>, manufactures Javelin missiles. The main production occurs at <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Lockheed Martin’s facility in Troy, Alabama</span></strong>, and Raytheon’s production support in Tucson, Arizona.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><h3><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>3. <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System)</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></h3><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Lockheed Martin</span></strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'> manufactures HIMARS at its facilities in <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Camden, Arkansas</span></strong>. This location is dedicated to the production of various missile and artillery systems, including HIMARS and its associated rockets.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><h3><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>4. <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Patriot Missiles</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></h3><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4'><strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Patriot missile systems</span></strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>, which have been promised to Ukraine, are manufactured by Raytheon primarily at facilities in <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Andover, Massachusetts</span></strong>, and <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Tucson, Arizona</span></strong>.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><h3><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>5. <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Switchblade Drones</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></h3><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo5'><strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>AeroVironment Inc.</span></strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>, the manufacturer of Switchblade drones, produces these loitering munitions in <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Simi Valley, California</span></strong>.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><h3><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>6. <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Other Small Arms and Ammunition</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></h3><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Several small arms and types of ammunition come from multiple facilities in the U.S., especially those associated with <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems</span></strong> (with locations in <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Marion, Illinois</span></strong>, and <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>St. Petersburg, Florida</span></strong>), and <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Winchester Ammunition</span></strong> in <strong><span style='font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'>Oxford, Mississippi</span></strong>.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> We aren’t even keeping up with Russia’s artillery manufacturing. Putin knows all this. </span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p>Not too long ago, a dark-spirited friend of mine used the phrase "an atmospheric river of drones and missiles". I don't know what the material comparison is in the Ukraine war to past regional/global conflicts but the amount of Lead, Depleted Uranium, Nitro Compounds and Oxidizers must be significant.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Vietnam scholars might remember the AC-47 (Puff the Magic Dragon) which could lay down a "carpet of lead" (nominally one round per square foot?) followed by napalm if desired. And the "bomb trains" moving Napalm across the US from manufacturing locations (rust belt?) to Pacific shipping ports (CA/OR/WA)?<o:p></o:p></p><p>While I would love to see an opportunity for the cessation of warfare/death in Ukraine, I don't know what to do about the inhumanity that Putin (and his boys and girls) were allowed to impose on the Ukrainians. Geopolitics of "NATO and Western encroachment) aside, I don't know how that translates into the wickedness wrought against the people. And how was/is any of this particularly good for Russians? I was prepared to leave my country (for good) when I turned 18 to avoid being made into a killer (murderer in some cases) against my will. What is to become of those Russian soldiers who survived being foddered into the Ukrainian front lines and will return "shattered heroes" at best (see. Tom Cruise in <i>Born on the 4th of July</i>). At least the Ukrainian dead and surviving soldiers will have a somewhat clear sense of what they were fighting (and dying) for?<o:p></o:p></p><p>And need I even reference Israel/Palestine?<o:p></o:p></p><p>Similar to the inhumanity of our flawed "gated community" immigration policies and our own (US/W. Europe) expansionaism/exploitation/empire only baldly more brutal? Trump aleady did the kids-in-cages thing and has proposed (shoot them in the legs) to deter border crossings... Two "kids" I went to high school with (1 and 3 years older) were tried/sentenced for torturing (binding, branding and forcing them to walk naked back to the border) young men seeking employment on their ranch within a few miles of the border. And this was in the 70s before the current MAGA style rhetoric was afoot.<o:p></o:p></p><p>It would seem we are "wicked turtles all the way down"?<o:p></o:p></p><p>(I'll go back to drinking my own acidic liberal tears of rage and grief now and try not to spill too many over here). And btw, it isn't clear that "the other side" would actually have resolved all or much of this nonsense we are about, so maybe the "in your face" version has it's own charms?<o:p></o:p></p><p>- Ack!<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>