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    <p>California is 5th largest economy but including the "rest" of
      Pacifica (OR, WA, BC) it ranks 4th just behind Germany.    What
      would an informal but powerful union of North Pacific rim
      "states"  (Panama to BC), the bulk of Canada, and the northeast
      Atlantic Seaboard and (eventually?) the upper midwest (MN, WI, MI
      ...) look like economically, controlling Pacific trade, etc. ?  
      JP/Korea, the UK, the EU would all be obvious good trade/defense
      allies, no matter what "Gilead" chose to do?  <br>
    </p>
    <p>As for Musk, I predict Space Force will be spun up with an
      unprecedented accelerated "Colonize Mars" agenda.   Maybe Bezos
      will be allowed to play an O'Neill Colony fantasy out to
      complement this... do we leave the Moon to Saudi Arabia, japan and
      China?<br>
    </p>
    <p>Remember how fast we went from Vanguard to Moon Landing in the
      60s?   The mission is much bigger but the resources and
      sophistication of the supporting systems are also
      (multiplicatively, geometrically, exponentially,??? ) greater?</p>
    <p>And Zuckerberg will provide the Fentanyl of the Masses with VR
      rigs and virtual worlds to live out the full spectrum of
      fantasies?  <br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/9/24 10:15 AM, Marcus Daniels
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MN0PR11MB5985E2EAB6EC71F457E463D4C55E2@MN0PR11MB5985.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’ve already
            identified some things that could come from a Trump
            administration.   <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt">It will stimulate New York, New
              England and the west coast and other states to create
              further civil rights protections from the federal
              government.   Health maintenance arrangements may be
              further secured by the states.  When Social Security and
              Medicare fail, these states will be better prepared.   The
              result of all this is that smart people in backward states
              will leave those states and take residence in states where
              they are valued.   Money will be kept in progressive
              states and not wasted on an ignorant, self-destructive
              collective.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt">It will motivate these states to
              reach out to other countries to negotiate special
              relationships on trade and climate.   California, being
              the 5<sup>th</sup> largest economy in the world, can
              bypass the federal government in making deals.  This will
              limit the power of the federal government.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt">Elon Musk’s interests may keep
              progress going on electrification.  Yes, the U.S. may
              indeed use Ukraine to secure access to the country’s
              natural resources.  <o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt">Elon Musk’s interests in space
              colonization may force the Republican party to adopt some
              more forward-looking projects that will employ angry young
              men and mitigate their despair.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The problem
            with stretching out the war in Ukraine is that they will run
            out of manpower.   Otherwise, it is arguably a good thing
            for the U.S. to keep Russian losses high and to undermine
            their economy.  That’s how to break an authoritarian
            regime.   Unfortunately, now we will have to first have to
            break our own.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> on behalf of Pieter
              Steenekamp <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za"><pieters@randcontrols.co.za></a><br>
              <b>Date: </b>Saturday, November 9, 2024 at 8:07 AM<br>
              <b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
              Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
              <b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I think
              many of you dislike Trump so much that it’s hard to see he
              might actually do some good for the US and the world. Let
              me share my thinking.<br>
              <br>
              I see Trump a bit like King Leopold II of Belgium. King
              Leopold did horrible things in the Congo, but he did a lot
              of good for his own country. Back then, people in Belgium
              didn’t know the terrible stuff happening in Africa because
              news travelled differently.<br>
              <br>
              Now, don’t get me wrong—Trump’s a flawed person, and I
              think we can agree on that. But, in his first term, he
              actually achieved some good things for the US and
              globally. For example, his administration was successful
              in the Middle East. If you’re interested in a deeper look,
              Lex Fridman’s interview with Jared Kushner offers some
              insights (<a
                href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_MeKSnyAo"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_MeKSnyAo</a>).
              It's fair to say that Biden’s administration didn’t build
              on Trump’s progress there - in fact they messed up
              seriously.<br>
              <br>
              If we keep an open mind, it’s possible to see that Biden’s
              approach in Ukraine will stretch out the war and cost US
              taxpayers more over many years and the citizens of Ukraine
              will be the big losers. Given Trump’s previous success in
              the Middle East, it’s not crazy to think he could find a
              faster way to help end the war in Ukraine without a mess,
              like what happened with Biden’s exit from Afghanistan.<br>
              <br>
              Sure, Trump’s not a saint. But he’s not looking to go down
              as a failure either—he wants to be remembered as a winner.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Sat,
                9 Nov 2024 at 16:43, Marcus Daniels <<a
                  href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
            1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
            6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt">Trump’s reads the room. 
                      If he feels his people would tolerate Russia using
                      chemical weapons at a massive scale in Ukraine,
                      then he’d be fine with that.   Remember he was
                      fine separating immigrant children from their
                      parents.   This property may well cause some deals
                      to be made because they are afraid of the
                      consequences.   That’s not a skill in negotiation,
                      that’s just the kind of terror that an organized
                      crime boss might elicit.   <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt">The U.S. doesn’t have a
                      boundless number of Tomahawk missiles to give
                      Ukraine, even if we authorized firing into
                      Russia.   They run a couple million U.S. dollars
                      each.   We aren’t even keeping up with Russia’s
                      artillery manufacturing.   Putin knows all this. 
                      For better or worse, Biden doesn’t want a war.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                      style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam <<a
                          href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
                        on behalf of Pieter Steenekamp <<a
                          href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>><br>
                        <b>Date: </b>Friday, November 8, 2024 at
                        11:49 PM<br>
                        <b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied
                        Complexity Coffee Group <<a
                          href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
                        <b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die</span><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                      style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt">Trump's the kind of guy
                        you should take seriously, not literally. When
                        he says something big like, “I’ll end the war in
                        Ukraine on day one,” he means he's dead set on
                        making peace happen there. Anyone with half a
                        brain knows he can’t actually snap his fingers
                        and stop the war on his first day. That’s up to
                        Russia and Ukraine to figure out, after all. But
                        does Trump have a unique knack for pushing
                        people toward a deal? Oh, you bet he does.<br>
                        <br>
                        In fact, William Spaniel, a professor over at
                        the University of Pittsburgh, mentioned in a
                        podcast <a
                          href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKH-QeRJBU8"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKH-QeRJBU8</a>
                        that Putin seems to believe Trump will lay down
                        a deal that both sides can live with. (And yeah,
                        Spaniel seems to know his stuff.)<br>
                        <br>
                        So, here’s my hunch on what Trump might say to
                        Ukraine and Russia, in my own words: “Alright,
                        fellas, here’s the deal. Ukraine, let’s be
                        real—Russia needs to keep a little slice of land
                        to save face. It might sting, but if you don’t
                        settle, Russia’s going to drag this war out and
                        make it miserable for everyone. And Russia,
                        let’s stop the drama now. You can keep a few
                        bits, but if you keep pushing, we’re going to
                        load up Ukraine with so many weapons it’ll make
                        your head spin. Then, you’re gonna lose big
                        time, and Ukraine will take back everything. But
                        hey, it’s up to you, sweethearts!”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt">On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 at
                          07:04, steve smith <<a
                            href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
                          wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <div>
                        <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> Marcuswrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote
                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt">Seems like a
                                lot of people will try to leave Africa
                                because of climate change.   I suppose
                                they’ll end up in Europe, creating yet
                                more folks like Trump to rile people up
                                about it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt">Until the AMOC
                            turns over and plunges Northern Europe into
                            the kind of winter cold Maine-Nova Scotia
                            currently "enjoy"?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p>there was some B post-apocalypse movie
                          starring a polar vortex which ended with all
                          of Canada/US lined up at the MX border asking
                          to be let in to avoid turning into
                          popsicles...   of course, the style of the
                          movie had the sweet long-suffering people in
                          the land of Manana politely inviting all the
                          Karen's and Matt Gaetz's into their (now
                          overwhelmed? country)...<o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt">.- .-.. .-.. / ..-.
                          --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. ---
                          -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... .
                          ..-. ..- .-..<br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
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