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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>The video about how she failed at being an academic I think is informative. It isn\u2019t a technical video \u2013 she has those too \u2013one is not universal, but also not a implausible story about the experience about how it is to raise money to support research. A grad student might watch that and say to themselves, \u201cDo I really want that life? Do I want to be this bitter?\u201d \u201cMaybe I should monetize videos of my cat on YouTube?\u201d<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of steve smith <sasmyth@swcp.com><br><b>Date: </b>Monday, November 11, 2024 at 8:16\u202fAM<br><b>To: </b>friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] hyperbole (was Re: How democracies die)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><br>glen wrote:<br>> ...<br><br>> The complaint against Sabine and many in the wacko pipeline is that <br>> their wacko content gets more views. And more views means more money. <br>> Her boring videos don't get as much traffic as her wacko videos. So <br>> she's incentivized toward the wacko. She's not defying any rules. <br>> She's caught up in the forcing structure, obeying the rule even if she <br>> doesn't want to. And that means she *is* doing her job, profiting off <br>> clickbait and misinformation. It's just not the job of an academic.<br><br>When Sabine blossomed as an entertaining source of parallax on topics I <br>was interested in I must have watched at least parts of at least a dozen <br>of her pieces and appreciated, well, the *parallax* of it... but in <br>fact, the thumbs and the titles and some of the content was in fact <br>hyperbolic at least in style... and it got old and I rarely click <br>through, though I think I still accept that if Sabine is "going on" <br>about something it might mean there is a "there there" even if she isn't <br>going to help me understand it straight.<br><br>Which jiggers me sideways (slantweiz?) over to Emily Dickenson's poem: <br>"Tell all the truth but tell it slant".<br><br>What is it about language and truth which maybe sometimes needs to be <br>"snuck up on"? Or is that just a romanticized misdirection?<br><br>The various (coupled?) recommenders (Google News, YouTube, Ground News) <br>in my world have finally come to marginalize her work with me, only <br>tossing it up only when some combination of conditions occur. I want to <br>describe it as the "trajectory of my attention intersecting some <br>high-dimensional manifold" but this is even more incomplete in my minds <br>eye than many of the things I share here already. I also want to (and <br>therefore apparently am) overlay the idiom of fractality and attractors, <br>as if the "sneaking up" has something to do with slowing down and being <br>careful about the "trajectory" in this high-dimensional conceptual phase <br>space?<br><br>What is the "delta-V" of conceptual space? Is it a continuum, a metric <br>space, or topological? I suppose I've gone "full slant" here... so I <br>have to wonder what *my* forcing rules are?<br><br>><br>> On 11/9/24 14:52, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>>> Ah, she\u2019s a scholar but not an academic. I think that would make <br>>> DeepMind researchers not academics either, or researchers that work <br>>> for organizations like Petrobras (even though they publish). That <br>>> just says to me that academics aren\u2019t hyperbolic in informal <br>>> communication not because they fear for their credibility, but <br>>> because they are afraid to antagonize the kind of social network that <br>>> funds them. Graeme Smith comes to mind as someone that makes <br>>> hyperbolic statements on social media relevant to his field but is an <br>>> academic in the sense you mean.<br>>><br>>> Another reason I could see academics don\u2019t speak freely is because <br>>> they risk their rewarding gigs as advisors in the judicial or <br>>> executive activities of government. Everyone has politics to <br>>> navigate, but I appreciate it when people like Sabine defy the rules.<br>>><br>>> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of glen <br>>> <gepropella@gmail.com><br>>> *Date: *Saturday, November 9, 2024 at 2:27\u202fPM<br>>> *To: *friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com><br>>> *Subject: *[FRIAM] hyperbole (was Re: How democracies die)<br>>><br>>> Maybe my use of the word is too constrained. I tend to use it as I <br>>> think Sabine (and Eric Weinstein and maybe Stephan Wolfram) use it. <br>>> I.e. they claim they're not part of it. So why shouldn't I believe <br>>> them? As in the people within the academy, *some* type of institution <br>>> that combines teaching with research. That would include pretty much <br>>> anything with the *.edu on the end. SFI is on the outer edge. <br>>> Heterodox Academy is even closer to the edge ... or perhaps just <br>>> barely outside of it. Something like Prager University is definitely <br>>> outside of it. The *primary* aspect of my conception is <br>>> grantsmanship, which is a hallmark of non-profit activities. If it's <br>>> a for profit enterprise, it's difficult for me to consider it "the <br>>> academy".<br>>><br>>> But I suppose I could loosen my definition and consider relatively <br>>> independent science communicators like Sabine or Neil deGrasse Tyson <br>>> as peri-academics (or maybe even para-academics). Then it would be a <br>>> short hop to, say, fossil fuel lobbyists. There's some kind of <br>>> slippery slope, here. And that's why I like to stick to grantsmanship <br>>> for academicy stuff. (It also applies to other non-profits ... or the <br>>> hunt for a sugar momma, even ... patronage. But academics, because <br>>> they're also scholars, have a more sedate and systematic matrix to <br>>> navigate.)<br>>><br>>> The other element that separates people like Neil deGrasse Tyson or <br>>> Professor Dave or Angela Collier from people like Sabine is that they <br>>> engage in less hyperbole. My experience with serious academics is <br>>> they don't run around yelling things like "Science is Dying". <br>>> Academics tend to be more measured, restrained, particular, and a bit <br>>> boring. Of course, as they age out, they go a bit batshˇt. It seems <br>>> to me emeriti engage in more hyperbole than working academics.<br>>><br>>> So long story short: Sabine's not an academic because she doesn't <br>>> spend her time writing grants. And she's not an academic because too <br>>> much of her work product is hyperbolic.<br>>><br>>> On 11/8/24 22:33, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>>>> I'm still confused why you say Hossenfelder isn't an academic. <br>>>> Scholar.google.com doesn't see it that way: Cited by 5,426. She <br>>>> has recent publications.<br>>><br>><br>><br><br>.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>