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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>When we moved to the Bay Area, expenses did go up compared to Santa Fe. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>However, our combined and individual incomes both went up more. Whatever disadvantages exist here, I can’t imagine giving that up. In contrast, a colleague moved to London, and they cut his salary by 30% while his housing costs stayed about the same. The ideal thing would be to be a digital nomad and keep a coastal blue state income. In 2018 or so I was thinking about BC as an option. But Canada also has significantly lower salaries, and it was a better income to work remote in the U.S. for a Canadian company. Now Canada seems to be souring on neoliberal leaders too. I think I’ll cross that one off the list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of Gary Schiltz <gary@naturesvisualarts.com><br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 12, 2024 at 9:11 AM<br><b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] Want to leave the U.S.?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>My ship has already sailed, so to speak. Moved to Ecuador 16 years<br>ago. At this point, I'm not sure the advantages (low cost of living,<br>year-round springlike temperatures at my altitude of 6500 feet)<br>outweigh the negatives (crime, unstable government, undependable<br>police force). But it's home now for better or worse. With Karen's and<br>my social security combined, we live a middle class life pretty<br>easily. If that got cut off, we would be up shit creek. And if we<br>moved back to the states, we would either be in poverty or blow<br>through the savings in a couple of years, or I'd have to look for<br>software jobs at 66 years old. Usually people move from the third<br>world to the USA to escape poverty, and it's ironic that we're here,<br>partly to avoid poverty. Reverse economic refugees. I think there are<br>many in this country (mostly in Cuenca) who moved from the USA for<br>that very reason.<br><br>On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 11:22 AM Jochen Fromm <jofr@cas-group.net> wrote:<br>><br>> Some scientists expected that Trump would win and moved early on to Europe, for example John Carlos Baez who moved to Edinburgh in Scotland<br>><br>> <a href="https://mathstodon.xyz/@johncarlosbaez/112721900506353931">https://mathstodon.xyz/@johncarlosbaez/112721900506353931</a><br>><br>><br>> If you think about leaving a future Trumpistan then the following article might be interesting. Forbes lists countries welcoming Americans with open arms: Spain, Italy, France, and Canada are among them<br>><br>> <a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2024/11/06/want-to-leave-the-us-the-best-countries-for-americans-to-move-to/">https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2024/11/06/want-to-leave-the-us-the-best-countries-for-americans-to-move-to/</a><br>><br>><br>> I believe Australia, Ireland and New Zealand are also good choices simply because of the language.<br>><br>> <a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/08/americans-interested-in-moving-abroad-skyrocket-after-trumps-win.html">https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/08/americans-interested-in-moving-abroad-skyrocket-after-trumps-win.html</a><br>><br>><br>> -J.<br>><br>><br>> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>> to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>> archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br><br>.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>