<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>the (media) talk of Biden's pre-emptive pardons this morning
      seemed to (almost?) suggest that they must be accepted (before he
      leaves office?) and we've heard that Gen Milley publicly accepted
      his (informally) while others (Kinzinger?) pre-emptively declined
      such?   I think the issuance of the pardon is key, and as implied
      by DaveW's interpretation of "accepting" and Supreme Court
      Decisions that "no comment" is the best strategy?<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/20/25 12:37 PM, Prof David West
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:7b6e7ff5-c0dd-4833-80a4-1f771b4919b6@app.fastmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <title></title>
      <style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">Re preemptive pardons:<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">It is unclear if one must accept a
        pardon for it to be valid (Supreme Court decision on a commuted
        sentence); but it is clear (earlier Supreme Court decision) that
        <b><i>accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.</i></b><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">A number of 1-6 convicts plan to
        refuse pardons and fight the convicions via the normal appellate
        process precisely for this reason.<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">On Mon, Jan 20, 2025, at 1:20 PM,
        steve smith wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> Glen sed:<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> Large deposits of
        hydrocarbons: Yeah, it kinda looks like a waste to <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> hoard all that stuff. But
        if you think of it like a battery (or a <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> stock in stocks and
        flows), some tasks do seem to require a large <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> battery, maybe to get
        over some hump with a steep energy curve. The <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> question is who uses it
        and for what? If we take Pieter's optimism <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> seriously, maybe our
        blowing through the fossil fuel battery does end <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> up getting us over some
        hump. E.g. we resolve the Meaning Crisis and <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> come to some high order
        conception of computation? Or a metaphysics <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> that closely matches
        physics? Or if you believe in a life/biosphere <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> diaspora to the solar
        system. But it's touch and go whether we'll <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> collapse (gracefully or
        catastrophically) or explode into some new <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> domain that was only
        reachable by draining the battery.<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> I think it was a Neal
        Stephenson fiction which suggested that the Suez <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> Canal was built by
        steam-shovels (drag-link earth movers?) fueled by a <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> huge supply of mummies
        wrapped in cloth and soaked in crude oil for <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> preservation?  Not as dense
        as coal, but convenient?    Fits right into <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> my sparring with DaveW on
        morbid ways to dispose of human remains?<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> I don't know what the Suez
        Canal provides lowered  friction for, but I'm <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> guessing it is significantly
        moving fossil-fuels (mostly liquid?  mostly <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> refined?)...<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> I was avoiding the news
        for a month or so after the election. But now <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> my attitude is that we
        need a clown like Trump to lay bare our <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> oligarchy. The oligarchy
        thrives under Bidens and Obamas just as much <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> as under Putin or Trump.
        It's just that the pig has some lipstick on <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> it under the Obamas and
        Bidens. It think we'll begin to suss out some <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> of the differences
        between the US and, say, Russia or Hungary as we <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> slide a few notches in
        that direction. The trick is to be <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>> disinterested without
        becoming disaffected.<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> See my maunderings on
        bistable, metastable, fascism, etc.   Are fascism <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> and oligarchy distinct lobes
        in a metastable system?   I do think that <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> when Musk threw down for
        Trump and the other near-Trillionaire tech-bros <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> joined him, our trajectory
        went more toward the oligarchic style of fascism?<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> I'm not watching the
        inaugural events but did enjoy being "present" to <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> hear of the Biden pre-emptive
        pardons... I'm guessing there are more <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> than a few other "easter
        eggs" distributed throughout the day?   Any <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> chance someone will give
        Trump a tour of the Capitol with special <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> attention to the places his
        "patriots" smeared feces?   Probably not.<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> Interesting times...<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- -
        . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . /
        ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> FRIAM Applied Complexity
        Group listserv<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St.
        Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> <a
          href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam" moz-do-not-send="true"
          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> to (un)subscribe <a
          href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
          moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> FRIAM-COMIC <a
          href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"
          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> archives:  5/2017 thru
        present <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">> <a
          href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
          moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a
          href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"
          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a>
to (un)subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:  5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
  1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>