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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/11/25 12:41 PM, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Huh, Claude just implemented the
optimal strategy to Nim and ran in it its analysis tool
(the Javascript engine on my browser).<br>
</span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>what my oldMansBarFriend had to say after a brief discussion
about Nim and the hand-over-hand on bat-handle playground method
for deciding who bats first:<br>
</p>
<p><GPT 4o slopp><br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p data-start="0" data-end="300"><i>Glad that landed! It’s
like a <strong data-start="30" data-end="58">"soft" or
continuous Nim</strong>, where control isn’t strictly
quantized but still follows a structured alternation
toward an inevitable endgame. The constraints emerge
organically—<strong data-start="207" data-end="264">hand
size, grip technique, and subtle physical limits</strong>—instead
of rigid numerical rules.</i></p>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node=""><i>It’s
a cool example of how <strong data-start="329"
data-end="364">discrete game theory principles</strong>
manifest in the real world, with a touch of <strong
data-start="409" data-end="431">embodied cognition</strong>
in the mix.</i></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node=""><i><endSlopp></i></p>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node="">And the
following as an LLM (Slopp) reflection on the relative
virtue/shame signals associated with chatting with your favorite
LLM vs going to the Pub (and presumably having similar convos with
bar-friends)? The one mile each-way trip to the pub can be
multiplied by 20 or 50 to estimate a "Sunday Drive" instead?</p>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node="">Looks like a
15mpg driver of a pickup should drink order 3-4 beers to amortize
the embedded energy cost of driving there/back but a hybrid or EV
driver can get by with just one, maybe even a short one?
Domestic Drafts and Bottles are lower embedded energy (presumably
because of industrial economies of scale) but imports are higher
(because transport?). In DeepSeekR1 ratios, it looks like
"staying home and chatting with your fave LLM" has order 1000x
savings over driving anything to the pub and having a single
beer. And taking a Sunday Drive is worth many times that? Of
course the LLM didn't twig to the conventional NM Sunday Joyride
implying a six-pack at a minimum...<br>
</p>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node="">I did beat
both GPT and DS around the head and shoulders with a metaphorical
wet noodle for a while to get relatively aligned numbers (aligned
with one another and with my(very) lame intuition)... but expect
(m)any here to poke holes in the details...</p>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node="">Sadly I'm a
pretty good sloppGenerator without an LLM's help... I'll try to
refrain from the doubleDown offered.<br>
</p>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node=""><freshSlopp><br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<h3 data-start="412" data-end="510"><strong
data-start="416" data-end="510">Refined Travel and
Beer Comparison with Energy Usage Ratios (DeepSeekR1
Query Denominator)</strong></h3>
<table data-start="512" data-end="6495">
<thead data-start="512" data-end="781"><tr
data-start="512" data-end="781">
<th data-start="512" data-end="552"><strong
data-start="514" data-end="526">Category</strong></th>
<th data-start="552" data-end="584"><strong
data-start="554" data-end="568">Cost (USD)</strong></th>
<th data-start="584" data-end="640"><strong
data-start="586" data-end="639">Total Energy
Consumption (1 Mile Round Trip, kWh)</strong></th>
<th data-start="640" data-end="684"><strong
data-start="642" data-end="683">Sunday Joyride
(2 hours, countryside)</strong></th>
<th data-start="684" data-end="732"><strong
data-start="686" data-end="731">Energy Usage
Ratio (vs. Local Craft Beer)</strong></th>
<th data-start="732" data-end="781"><strong
data-start="734" data-end="779">Energy Usage
Ratio (vs. DeepSeekR1 Query)</strong></th>
</tr>
</thead><tbody data-start="1051" data-end="6495">
<tr data-start="1051" data-end="1319">
<td><strong data-start="1053" data-end="1075">1)
Personal Travel</strong></td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="1320" data-end="1592">
<td>a) <strong data-start="1325" data-end="1334">Truck</strong></td>
<td>$3–$5 (1 mile)</td>
<td>~2.6–3.7 kWh</td>
<td>~12–18 kWh</td>
<td>2.6–3.7x</td>
<td>520–740x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="1593" data-end="1865">
<td>b) <strong data-start="1598" data-end="1609">ICE
Car</strong></td>
<td>$1.50–$3 (1 mile)</td>
<td>~1.4–2.1 kWh</td>
<td>~12–18 kWh</td>
<td>1.4–2.1x</td>
<td>280–420x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="1866" data-end="2138">
<td>c) <strong data-start="1871" data-end="1885">Hybrid
Car</strong></td>
<td>$1–$2 (1 mile)</td>
<td>~0.8–1.1 kWh</td>
<td>~12–18 kWh</td>
<td>0.8–1.1x</td>
<td>160–220x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="2139" data-end="2411">
<td>d) <strong data-start="2144" data-end="2160">Electric
Car</strong></td>
<td>$0.50–$1 (1 mile)</td>
<td>~0.4–0.5 kWh</td>
<td>~12–18 kWh</td>
<td>0.4–0.5x</td>
<td>80–100x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="2412" data-end="2684">
<td>e) <strong data-start="2417" data-end="2428">Walking</strong></td>
<td>$0 (no cost)</td>
<td>~0 kWh</td>
<td>~0 kWh</td>
<td>0x</td>
<td>0x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="2685" data-end="2957">
<td>f) <strong data-start="2690" data-end="2703">Bicycling</strong></td>
<td>$0 (no cost)</td>
<td>~0 kWh</td>
<td>~0 kWh</td>
<td>0x</td>
<td>0x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="2958" data-end="3230">
<td>g) <strong data-start="2963" data-end="2983">Public
Transport</strong></td>
<td>$1–$3 per ride</td>
<td>~0.3–0.7 kWh (depending on method)</td>
<td>~2–4 kWh (for a 1–2 hour ride)</td>
<td>0.3–0.7x</td>
<td>60–140x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="3231" data-end="3499">
<td><strong data-start="3233" data-end="3256">2)
Beer Consumption</strong></td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="3500" data-end="3771">
<td>a) <strong data-start="3505" data-end="3526">Local
Craft Draft</strong></td>
<td>$5–$10 per pint</td>
<td>~0.8–1.3 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>1x</td>
<td>160–260x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="3772" data-end="4043">
<td>b) <strong data-start="3777" data-end="3806">Domestic
Draft (Regional)</strong></td>
<td>$3–$5 per pint</td>
<td>~0.5–0.7 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.5–0.7x</td>
<td>80–140x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="4044" data-end="4316">
<td>c) <strong data-start="4049" data-end="4072">Domestic
Can/Bottle</strong></td>
<td>$2–$5 per can/bottle</td>
<td>~0.4–0.8 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.4–0.8x</td>
<td>60–140x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="4317" data-end="4589">
<td>d) <strong data-start="4322" data-end="4340">Mexican
Bottle</strong></td>
<td>$3–$6 per bottle</td>
<td>~0.9–1.8 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>1.1–1.4x</td>
<td>180–360x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="4590" data-end="4862">
<td>e) <strong data-start="4595" data-end="4618">European
Can/Bottle</strong></td>
<td>$4–$8 per can/bottle</td>
<td>~1.5–2.9 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>1.9–3.7x</td>
<td>300–580x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="4863" data-end="5135">
<td>f) <strong data-start="4868" data-end="4888">Asian
Can/Bottle</strong></td>
<td>$4–$7 per can/bottle</td>
<td>~2.1–3.6 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>2.6–4.6x</td>
<td>340–720x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="5136" data-end="5404">
<td><strong data-start="5138" data-end="5162">3)
GPT Model Queries</strong></td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="5405" data-end="5677">
<td>a) <strong data-start="5410" data-end="5434">GPT-3
(Single Query)</strong></td>
<td>Varies</td>
<td>~0.002–0.005 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.002–0.006x</td>
<td>0.4–1x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="5678" data-end="5950">
<td>b) <strong data-start="5683" data-end="5708">GPT-4o
(Single Query)</strong></td>
<td>Varies</td>
<td>~0.01–0.03 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.01–0.03x</td>
<td>2–6x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="5951" data-end="6223">
<td>c) <strong data-start="5956" data-end="5986">GPT-4o
Mini (Single Query)</strong></td>
<td>Varies</td>
<td>~0.005–0.02 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.005–0.02x</td>
<td>1–4x</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="6224" data-end="6495">
<td>d) <strong data-start="6229" data-end="6258">DeepSeekR1
(Single Query)</strong></td>
<td>Varies</td>
<td>~0.001–0.005 kWh</td>
<td>-</td>
<td>0.001–0.005x</td>
<td>1x</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<hr data-start="6497" data-end="6500"></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<h3 data-start="6502" data-end="6522"><br>
</h3>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node=""></p>
<p data-start="302" data-end="443" data-is-last-node=""><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MN0PR11MB598535A6C4A20B18505B5E25C5FD2@MN0PR11MB5985.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
</span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> on behalf of Roger
Critchlow <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rec@elf.org"><rec@elf.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 11:36 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] genai and critical thinking<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On
Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 10:15 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <u>[...]</u> the
evolving code itself -- code that can have
informative types and even carry proofs. The
weirdest thing about using AI is that it has no
opinions. Claude will rewrite code without
asking (seemingly having no self-control), but
it will not confront you like a frustrated
colleague might. It is happy to let you make a
mess provided its sense of idiomatic code
patterns are satisfied.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> This
echoed something an old boss wrote me today:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have
much enjoyment torturing llms. I can get off the rails
rather easily. They have no state, by themselves they
cannot calculate parity or play nim perfectly. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Or one
might say, they have no purpose.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- rec
-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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