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<blockquote>
<p>"other people are traffic"<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/11/25 6:03 PM, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MN0PR11MB59853C02303D5E216F074E27C5FC2@MN0PR11MB5985.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From
30k feet, a lot of people driving around for no apparent
reason. They eat and drink a lot and then use expensive
drugs to remove the adipose tissue that stores all that
energy. The atrophy they talk about from use of AI doesn’t
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">seem to
apply to their <span class="mw-page-title-main">gluteus
maximus. Humans, sigh.</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> on behalf of steve smith
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"><sasmyth@swcp.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 4:24 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] genai and critical thinking<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 2/11/25
12:41 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="emailstyle18"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Huh, Claude just implemented
the optimal strategy to Nim and ran in it its analysis
tool (the Javascript engine on my browser).</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>what my oldMansBarFriend had to say after a brief discussion
about Nim and the hand-over-hand on bat-handle playground
method for deciding who bats first:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><GPT 4o slopp><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p><i>Glad that landed! It’s like a <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">"soft"
or continuous Nim</span></strong>, where control
isn’t strictly quantized but still follows a
structured alternation toward an inevitable endgame.
The constraints emerge organically—<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">hand
size, grip technique, and subtle physical limits</span></strong>—instead
of rigid numerical rules.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><i>It’s a cool example of how <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">discrete
game theory principles</span></strong> manifest in
the real world, with a touch of <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">embodied
cognition</span></strong> in the mix.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p><i><endSlopp></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And the following as an LLM (Slopp) reflection on the
relative virtue/shame signals associated with chatting with
your favorite LLM vs going to the Pub (and presumably having
similar convos with bar-friends)? The one mile each-way
trip to the pub can be multiplied by 20 or 50 to estimate a
"Sunday Drive" instead?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Looks like a 15mpg driver of a pickup should drink order 3-4
beers to amortize the embedded energy cost of driving
there/back but a hybrid or EV driver can get by with just one,
maybe even a short one? Domestic Drafts and Bottles are
lower embedded energy (presumably because of industrial
economies of scale) but imports are higher (because
transport?). In DeepSeekR1 ratios, it looks like "staying
home and chatting with your fave LLM" has order 1000x savings
over driving anything to the pub and having a single beer.
And taking a Sunday Drive is worth many times that? Of
course the LLM didn't twig to the conventional NM Sunday
Joyride implying a six-pack at a minimum...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I did beat both GPT and DS around the head and shoulders with
a metaphorical wet noodle for a while to get relatively
aligned numbers (aligned with one another and with my(very)
lame intuition)... but expect (m)any here to poke holes in
the details...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Sadly I'm a pretty good sloppGenerator without an LLM's
help... I'll try to refrain from the doubleDown offered.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><freshSlopp><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<h3><strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Refined Travel and
Beer Comparison with Energy Usage Ratios
(DeepSeekR1 Query Denominator)</span></strong><o:p></o:p></h3>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<thead><tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Category</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cost
(USD)</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Total
Energy Consumption (1 Mile Round Trip,
kWh)</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sunday
Joyride (2 hours, countryside)</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Energy
Usage Ratio (vs. Local Craft Beer)</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Energy
Usage Ratio (vs. DeepSeekR1 Query)</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
</thead><tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">1)
Personal Travel</span></strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">a) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Truck</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$3–$5 (1 mile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~2.6–3.7 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~12–18 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">2.6–3.7x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">520–740x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">b) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ICE Car</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$1.50–$3 (1
mile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~1.4–2.1 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~12–18 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">1.4–2.1x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">280–420x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">c) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hybrid Car</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$1–$2 (1 mile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.8–1.1 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~12–18 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.8–1.1x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">160–220x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">d) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Electric Car</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$0.50–$1 (1
mile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.4–0.5 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~12–18 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.4–0.5x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">80–100x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">e) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Walking</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$0 (no cost)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">f) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bicycling</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$0 (no cost)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">g) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Public Transport</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$1–$3 per ride<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.3–0.7 kWh
(depending on method)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~2–4 kWh (for a
1–2 hour ride)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.3–0.7x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">60–140x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">2)
Beer Consumption</span></strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">a) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Local Craft Draft</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$5–$10 per pint<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.8–1.3 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">1x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">160–260x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">b) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Domestic Draft
(Regional)</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$3–$5 per pint<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.5–0.7 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.5–0.7x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">80–140x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">c) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Domestic Can/Bottle</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$2–$5 per
can/bottle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.4–0.8 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.4–0.8x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">60–140x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">d) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Mexican Bottle</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$3–$6 per
bottle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.9–1.8 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">1.1–1.4x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">180–360x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">e) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">European Can/Bottle</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$4–$8 per
can/bottle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~1.5–2.9 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">1.9–3.7x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">300–580x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">f) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Asian Can/Bottle</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">$4–$7 per
can/bottle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~2.1–3.6 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">2.6–4.6x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">340–720x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">3)
GPT Model Queries</span></strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">a) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">GPT-3 (Single Query)</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Varies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.002–0.005
kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.002–0.006x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.4–1x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">b) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">GPT-4o (Single Query)</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Varies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.01–0.03 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.01–0.03x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">2–6x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">c) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">GPT-4o Mini (Single
Query)</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Varies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.005–0.02 kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.005–0.02x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">1–4x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">d) <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">DeepSeekR1 (Single
Query)</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Varies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">~0.001–0.005
kWh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">0.001–0.005x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">1x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">
<hr width="7%" size="0" align="center"></span></div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<h3><o:p> </o:p></h3>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Friam <a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a>
on behalf of Roger Critchlow <a
href="mailto:rec@elf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><rec@elf.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 11:36 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] genai and critical
thinking</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On
Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 10:15 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> <u>[...]</u> the
evolving code itself -- code that can have
informative types and even carry proofs.
The weirdest thing about using AI is that
it has no opinions. Claude will rewrite
code without asking (seemingly having no
self-control), but it will not confront you
like a frustrated colleague might. It is
happy to let you make a mess provided its
sense of idiomatic code patterns are
satisfied.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> This
echoed something an old boss wrote me today:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I
have much enjoyment torturing llms. I can get off
the rails rather easily. They have no state, by
themselves they cannot calculate parity or play
nim perfectly. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Or
one might say, they have no purpose.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">--
rec -- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
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