<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body dir="auto"><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;">What Ryle and Dennett have in common is the trick to state what something is not: Ryle argued there is no ghost in the machine and Dennett claimed there is no central self in the Cartesian theater. For free will Dennett says we have free will if we are not acting under duress.</span></p><br dir="auto"><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;">I remember we had a discussion about first person view and third person view but I don't remember if we have arrived at a common conclusion. Normally animals perceive themselves in the first person view and others in the third person view. Social animals perceive the own group in the first person view and other groups in the third person view. </span></p><br dir="auto"><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;">The hard problem is of course to understand the first person view in others (the hard problem of subjective consciousness) and the third person view of ourselves (related to self-awareness and the problem of free will). From this point of view the two fundamental problems are related. Interesting, isn't it? </span></p><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><br></span></p><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;">-J.</span></p><p style="margin-top:0.0pt;margin-bottom:0.0pt;" dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space-collapse: preserve;"><br></span></p><div><br></div><div align="left" dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Nicholas Thompson <thompnickson2@gmail.com> </div><div>Date: 2/25/25 8:51 PM (GMT+01:00) </div><div>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> </div><div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free will part 20250223 </div><div><br></div></div><div dir="ltr">
<p>Hi, Jochen,</p>
<p>I thought I would beard you in your den!</p>
<p>I think the question is whether to privilege the first person or the
third person view. To anyone who privileges the third person view the
question of whether animals have free will or humans don’t is just
cartesian silliness. To an experience monist, such as myself, first- and
third-person views are both presumptively valid, but prove themselves
by their capacity to predict future experiences. If you think that you
are better able to predict your own behavior than your partner — or your
dog, for that matter — then the evidence is against you. First-person
accounts of behavioral causality are notoriously shoddy. I feel that
that was a bullet that both Ryle and Dennet were unable to bite.</p><p><br></p>
<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 8:35 AM Jochen Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net">jofr@cas-group.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">FYI if someone is interested I've written a blog post about "Free Will". It is based on stuff I have written here. Do people still write blog posts in the age of all knowing AIs? I don't know. Will somebody read it? Probably not. Well I feel I am getting old..</div><a href="https://blog.cas-group.net/2025/02/free-will-is-the-prize-the-treasure-of-independent-thinking/">https://blog.cas-group.net/2025/02/free-will-is-the-prize-the-treasure-of-independent-thinking/</a><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-J.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div>.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div class="gmail_signature" dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Nicholas S. Thompson</div><div>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology</div><div>Clark University</div><div><a href="mailto:nthompson@clarku.edu">nthompson@clarku.edu</a></div><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson</a></div></div>
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