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<p>Frank -</p>
<p>my sister and her husband (gringo from Wisconsin) moved to
Seville Spain in the late 70s because it was one of the few places
he could work as a (freshly minted) Copper Exploration Geologist
in the global mineral mining context of the time. They both
became fluent in Castilian while there, then moved to Santiago
Chile (same reasons, different era/hemisphere) where the Spanish
spoken was closer perhaps to the Castilian roots than what I knew
from the backwoods of W. NM and then the AZ/Sonora border. </p>
<p>When I moved to Northern NM, there was a whole other spin offered
via the Norteno dialect with ancient roots, some isolation and
integration with Puebloan vocabulary and idioms. When my sister
and husband would visit or bring visitors from Spain or Chile it
was interesting for them (the visitors) to haughtily correct
various vocabulary, idiomatic or pronunciation "errors" which were
simply regional dialectical differences, some rooted in 500 years
of history.</p>
<p>I don't know how broadly distributed the languages of colonial
European powers are today... English and Spanish being the
dominant in the new world with French a distant third along with
Portuguese and Dutch just a smidge? I think Pieter indicated
that Dutch and English are equally/similarly represented in modern
Afrikaans language/culture? Portuguese has an interesting play
in indonesia and Belgian pops up here and there as well? There
must be an uncountable (idiomatically not mathematically) number
of dialects and pidgens and creoles?<br>
</p>
<p>When Matt and Janire (CultVR/4piProductions) first visited here
around 2009, Janire (Najera from Najera, la Rioja, Espana, Basque
Region) was almost completely unaware of the Spanish Colonization
of this area. New Spain was barely in her history. The Spanish
Embassy in the US funded her to do a book project documenting the
old Spanish Trail, yielding a book, virtual tour, and a traveling
exhibit. She interviewed a lot of Spanish descendents along the
trail from here to southern California.<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a
href="https://www.spainculture.us/city/washington-dc/moving-forward-looking-back-journeys-across-the-old-spanish-trail/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.spainculture.us/city/washington-dc/moving-forward-looking-back-journeys-across-the-old-spanish-trail/</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.artbook.com/9788416282197.html"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.artbook.com/9788416282197.html</a></p>
<p><a href="https://janirenajera.com/moving-forward-looking-back/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://janirenajera.com/moving-forward-looking-back/</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think you met them in the context of sfX during the heydey?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/24/25 12:56 PM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfqp7XRO3W7gmOfBpytwt8N6TdXqbnkFjZNRe+9Yyw4nqQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>My maternal grandparents were both native New Mexicans who
lived their whole lives here. My grandfather was genetically
German but he spoke Spanish better than he spoke English.
Once he came to visit me when I lived in married student
housing at Carnegie Mellon. There were a couple of Mexican
guys who were in some summer classes who had become friends of
mine. I introduced them to my grandfather. One said to the
other in the typical Mexican sing-song way of speaking "Ven.
Quiero que conozcas a un Gringo que habla mejor que nosotros"
(Come, I want you to meet a Gringo who speaks (Spanish) better
than we do) My grandfather said, "Habla como un hombre! No
Cantes." (Talk like a man. Don't sing.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 12:26 PM
steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Steve:</div>
<div dir="auto">Do all your friends and neighbors have
the Red Cards no matter their status? In fact,
probably all of us should be carrying them.</div>
<div dir="auto">T.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>For the most part, we operate on a don't ask, don't tell
basis. The only folks with known status to me are those
who have achieved a full green-card status after years of
temporary work stints, etc. The rest are likely under
various radars. Often there is an adult child, likely
born in the USA who is peripherally involved. My Spanglish
is good enough to negotiate lots of work and social
situations but nothing as sensitive as legal immigration
status and I stay far away from those discussions as a
matter of respect. I try to telegraph that I am an ally
but don't belabor it.<br>
</p>
<p><a
href="https://www.ilrc.org/red-cards-tarjetas-rojas#item-4477"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ilrc.org/red-cards-tarjetas-rojas#item-4477
</a></p>
<p>I grew up with kids whose parents (more often
grandparents) did not speak English. Not because they had
immigrated from MX but because their ancestors lived in
the territory which became the US while they lived
there. In the mountains Western NM, some of the parents
(born in the early 1900s) were raised in Spanish-only
households among Spanish-only social/family networks.
The kids grandparents likely were children when their
families immigrated to the area from the Rio Grande valley
after the Civil War (when the newly formed/available US
Cavalry rounded up or killed the native Apache living in
the area). </p>
<p> In Southern (Douglas) AZ, many of these families had
equal representation on both sides of the border that was
drawn with the Gadsden Purchase. Some living on the MX
side may have been deported there during the 1st world war
or depression when there were attempts to displace
"mexicans" from the US without due process. May have
been part of the "alien enemies" act activities of the
time. <br>
</p>
<p>I think the Gadsden purchase included the Mesilla Valley
in NM (nod to REC) but in my case it was the region south
of Tucson in AZ.<br>
</p>
<br>
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