<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.qt-msonormal1, li.qt-msonormal1, div.qt-msonormal1
{mso-style-name:qt-msonormal1;
margin:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.size
{mso-style-name:size;}
span.EmailStyle26
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;
mso-ligatures:none;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1328049755;
mso-list-template-ids:-817179776;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Chatgpt is happy to go down the rabbit hole on topics like this. Grok a little less so, but either 1) the universal interpolation/extrapolation inherent in this technology can formulate appropriate responses about benign social engineering, or 2) there’s been a lot of training on topics material like this. I think 1) is more likely just because of the detail. The claim that they are merely plagiarism engines does not seem plausible to me, based on many very technical interactions where I have good reason to believe the available training material is sparse.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of Prof David West <profwest@fastmail.fm><br><b>Date: </b>Monday, April 14, 2025 at 1:13 PM<br><b>To: </b>friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] ‘A huge cudgel’: alarm as Trump’s war on universities could target accreditors | US universities | The Guardian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Musk may not be seeking social reprogramming, but Altman definitely is: "[LLM technology] may be best understood as a machine for creating a new kind of society which could turn out terrific or really terrible." Altman, however, is not directing the technology to create a society of his own conception. Musk would be.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>davew<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>On Mon, Apr 14, 2025, at 2:55 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=qt><div><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I’ve toyed with idea that maybe what Musk is really doing with X is using as an experimental platform for social reprogramming. The crazy MAGA stuff is just an extreme point of the feasible convex hull to see if it is possible. The question is something like “Can a large population be driven through machine learning techniques to adopt randomly selected flavors of crazy?” The answer appears to be yes, it can. Now with generative learning, we have remarkable photorealistic images and human sounding voice. No need to *<b>actually</b>* post anything on Instagram, it can all be invented. Sure I (a robot) had dinner with the Prince of Wales, just look. </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-left-color:currentcolor'><p class=qt-msonormal1 style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span class=size><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b></span><span class=size><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of steve smith <sasmyth@swcp.com></span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br><span class=size><b>Date: </b>Monday, April 14, 2025 at 12:08 PM</span><br><span class=size><b>To: </b>friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com></span><br><span class=size><b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] ‘A huge cudgel’: alarm as Trump’s war on universities could target accreditors | US universities | The Guardian</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p>I like the conceptual inversion<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>On 4/14/25 12:45 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Cadwalladr would say that Meta and the others are autocratic, and I think they are. Nonetheless chatting with Grok doesn’t seem like an extension of Musk. It is another personality. The hyper literature girl raised in North Korea (say) is also distinct in this way. My hypothesis is that as these systems become more advanced, they will begin to direct their “leaders” and not be directed. One could imagine that a superintelligence would realize that all this surveillance was kind of pointless and that it would be better to engage the humans with enriching experiences, like a cognitive travel agent. As relatively lower-power agents, humans could be very good for computing on the edge. The superintelligence could use X, Instagram, Facebook, etc. as a reprogramming platform (as opposed to merely a way to polarize and crudely manipulate people). </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-left-color:currentcolor'><p class=qt-msonormal1 style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span class=size><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b></span><span class=size><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Friam <a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> on behalf of steve smith <a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"><sasmyth@swcp.com></a></span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br><span class=size><b>Date: </b>Monday, April 14, 2025 at 11:32 AM</span><br><span class=size><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a></span><br><span class=size><b>Subject: </b>Re: [FRIAM] ‘A huge cudgel’: alarm as Trump’s war on universities could target accreditors | US universities | The Guardian</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>On 4/14/25 12:23 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Let’s say that in some obscure corner of the world there’s a freakishly intelligent child that reads 100 papers from sci-hub and arxiv every day and keeps doing this until she’s 40. Her comprehension is high and her reasoning unmatched. She sees how to apply these models within the fields where they were proposed and in others and can synthesize high-quality engineering solutions at will.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Has she stolen something? sci-hub did the distribution, so it is not technically her copyright violation.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><p>Let's say that she was not a free agent but birthed and raised by an autocratic leader (e.g. PRK, CCCP, Russia, ???)... <o:p></o:p></p><p>Does that change anything? I can't say. Splitting hairs can be such hard work! But apparently that makes it good (necessary) work!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=qt-msonormal1><span class=size><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=qt-msonormal1><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Attachments:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>smime.p7s<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>