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<p class="MsoNormal">I know. If small green bipedal creatures landed on earth and started tending to yardwork would that also be a disappointment?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">They’ve failed to trim my tall hedge, so curse them!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Thompson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 28, 2025 9:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] The comparative thickness of the tropospheree<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Marcus,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I find that George's indulgence with bad metaphor very useful.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I also find amazing his ability to grasp the gist of what I am asking. I have essential tremor and a bad keyboard and still George almost always gets the message. Siri will take any opportunity to misunderstand.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In this case, it was I, not George, who was cranking out the sloppy metaphors, trying to find a way to convey just how thin the atmosphere is. I was hoping Saran wrap thin, but that appears to be an order of magnitude too far.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am I reading this wrong? people often talk about LLM's as if they are
<i>disappointed</i> in them, as if there is something they SHOULD do that they aren't doing. Do you have any idea what the disappointment might be?: What is the world hankering for that they don't provide?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 9:37<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I wonder if the George makers 1) realized that people have an affinity to iffy analogies and they should give the people what they want, or 2) the LLM was prone to generating them
so they just made it a feature?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Friam <</span><a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">friam-bounces@redfish.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Thompson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 27, 2025 8:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <</span><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">friam@redfish.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [FRIAM] The comparative thickness of the tropospheree</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">George and I were looking for intuition pumps to help a reader imagine how very thin the troposphere is. Here is what we came up with:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<h3>Ordered by Type: Too Thin → Best Match → Too Thick<o:p></o:p></h3>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center">
<b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Material / Object</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center">
<b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Relative Thickness</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center">
<b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Too Thin or Too Thick?</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center">
<b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Notes</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Weather balloon skin (fully inflated)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~280× too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Way too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Soap-film fragile<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Plastic wrap (1 layer)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~7× too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Would need ~7 layers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Eyeball tear film<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~4× too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Slightly too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Very close, poetic comparison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Party balloon skin (inflated)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~3× too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Slightly too thin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Best easy everyday match<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Troposphere</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><br>
Apple peel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~14× too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Best among fruits<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Basketball skin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~16× too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Similar to soccer ball<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Soccer ball skin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~17× too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Very close to basketball<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Baseball leather skin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~25× too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Heavier and thicker still<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Tennis ball felt+skin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~37× too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Very thick and fuzzy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Navel Orange peel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">~70× too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Way too thick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Thickest skin we've discussed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
<span class="m5877595164519463841gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nicholas S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Clark University<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:nthompson@clarku.edu" target="_blank">nthompson@clarku.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span class="gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nicholas S. Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Clark University<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:nthompson@clarku.edu" target="_blank">nthompson@clarku.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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