<div dir="ltr">South Africa eagerly awaits President Cyril Ramaphosa’s upcoming meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump, a significant diplomatic breakthrough. An insightful article from Daily Maverick highlights how Ramaphosa achieved this feat through influential connections and a strategic approach that resonated with Trump.<br>The article explains that Ramaphosa’s success is a major diplomatic victory, overcoming months of intense and damaging criticism from Trump. Traditional diplomatic efforts had failed, with Washington largely ignoring South Africa’s outreach. Despite persistent attempts by South African government, diplomatic, and business delegations, access to Trump remained blocked.<br>On Capitol Hill, sources noted that South Africa underestimated the depth of hostility. Even allies sympathetic to South Africa’s anti-apartheid history were cautious about aligning with a nation facing unprecedented scrutiny from Trump. The article points out that South Africa endured more targeted executive orders and coordinated attacks than even U.S. adversaries like Iran, Cuba, and China. Tensions had been brewing before Trump’s election, with discussions of potential sanctions already underway.<br>Source: <a href="https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2025-05-19-ramaphosas-trump-meeting-is-a-diplomatic-coup/">https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2025-05-19-ramaphosas-trump-meeting-is-a-diplomatic-coup/</a><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 20 May 2025 at 07:20, Pieter Steenekamp <<a href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Apologies, it appears I got the day wrong — the meeting between Ramaphosa and Trump is actually scheduled for Wednesday.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 19 May 2025 at 20:08, steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<p>Pieter -</p>
<p>This is what I consider the "best of the list", even above some
of the very well thought through technical conversations around
simulation and complexity science and some of the more interesting
speculations around topics as esoteric and fraught as
consciousness and free will. Grounded field reports from those
with similar backgrounds (education, technical interests) but
likely differing socio-cultural perspectives provide me with the
most interesting parallax. I really appreciated (by the way)
Mohammed El Betagy's reports from the Arab Spring straight from
the halls of Cairo University back in 2008/9 ish? I believe he
has long since abandoned (contributing/reading?) this list, but
still encounter him through shared professional circles... <br>
</p>
<p>Your thorough and thoughtful reflection on your own context
really brought out the vibrancy I wanted to imagine that the
"remote post-colonial outpost" of SA can represent. I spent 1
month in New Zealand, the first two weeks in the home of a SA
couple (professor @ Waikito) from SA who were doing home-exchange
while they were back home for a holiday visit (Xmas/NY 2000) and
got a strong sense through them and their extended family (who
managed our stay in their absence) of strong similarities and
affinities between SA and NZ, both seemingly a bit of a
kinder-gentler variation on Australians (who I only met as service
workers in NZ and visiting scientists at LANL over the years) who
are themselves generally quite familiar to the (now mostly tamed)
frontier culture of the American West, but with more colorful (to
me) idioms and accents. I am identified with but ashamed of (most
of) my frontier roots/embedding... a confident can-do attitude
for all it's charm gets very ugly when based in ignorant
willfulness (or willful ignorance, depending on your class
embedding).<br>
</p>
<p>I am glad to hear that there is a widespread? attempt/motivation
across government and civil society in SA to find
socio-economic-cultural balance in the present which doesn't
require denying or perpetuating the wrongs of the past. My
limited understanding of the ANC is that it itself is in it's own
struggle between continuity/progress. I am glad to hear that
Ramaphosa represents significant hope to you in the spirit of
progress (whatever progress actually means in any given context).</p>
<p>The turmoil and struggles of SA seem much more acute and recent
than our own, though perhaps there is no way to compare a bloated
superpower in decline with something like your own country. The
stories of your own children and families is heartening... my
own two daughters (mid 40s now) has a similar texture but with
less (obvious) opportunity for emigration (or expatriation). No
personal networks outside of the US. The *technical barriers" to
being "global citizens" are lower than ever as is perhaps the
sociopoliticalcultural motivation of the moment with a rogue
mis(everything)is party running roughshod over our institutions,
norms and conventional allies.<br>
</p>
<p>My eldest, a molecular biologist specializing in mosquito-borne
(flavi) virus research is facing an imminent collapse of funding
(thank you RFKjr) and therefore a massive career change at an
inconvenient time in her personal life (newly purchased home,
first grade child, new dog). She is afraid to take seriously the
possibility that she could continue the arc of her work outside
the US but after a month or so of letting the (bad) news settle
around the pulling of her funding, she is more open to it. Her
professional network within her field (flavi and virology in
general) is good and we are hoping that this will yield good
results as she pursues more direct routes. She is at her happiest
in an academic wet lab culturing things that might make the third
world a better place, but her mid-career opportunities appear to
mostly be middle-management in big pharma helping billionaires
edge into trillionaire territory. <br>
</p>
<p>I was unaware of Ramaphosa's visit to Trump... I'll keep my
eyes/ears open for the echoes.</p>
<p>thanks,</p>
<p> - Steve<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 5/19/25 3:20 AM, Pieter Steenekamp
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I’d like to add a few thoughts about South African
President Cyril Ramaphosa, who is visiting Donald Trump today.<br>
<br>
I’m deeply proud of two of our presidents since the dawn of
democracy: Nelson Mandela and Cyril Ramaphosa. But for now, I’ll
focus on Ramaphosa. He has an extraordinary track record as a
skilled negotiator. As a young lawyer, he not only founded the
powerful mineworkers’ union in South Africa, but also negotiated
with the mining bosses with remarkable finesse. Even then, he
demonstrated wisdom beyond his years—he knew when to push and
when to hold back. In Trump’s language, he understood he didn’t
have the cards, and chose not to overplay his hand, avoiding a
situation where everyone would have lost—even though he had the
support of the Black mineworkers to do just that.<br>
<br>
Later, as the ANC’s chief negotiator during South Africa’s
transition to democracy, he outmaneuvered the ruling National
Party. He helped deliver a settlement that included full
universal suffrage—a major concession the National Party had
long resisted, especially since it offered no special
protections for the white minority that was a big line that the
National Party did not want to violate.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, the presidency of Jacob Zuma did significant
damage to both the country and the ANC. Corruption flourished,
and many unsavory elements infiltrated the party. Ramaphosa
inherited that mess and, in my view, is doing a remarkable job
of restoring integrity and accountability—although it’s not
without cost. One example is his support for the expropriation
without compensation bill, which I believe is a deeply misguided
step.<br>
<br>
Still, for me, Ramaphosa is a true hero. I’m grateful that he is
leading South Africa right now.<br>
<br>
I would love to be a fly on the wall during his meeting with
Trump today.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 19 May 2025 at 08:33,
Pieter Steenekamp <<a href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za" target="_blank">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I would like to begin by briefly addressing
Steve’s specific questions before sharing my broader
experience of life in South Africa.<br>
<br>
First, I strongly refute Donald Trump’s claim that white
South African farmers are widely subjected to personal
violence, leading to their deaths and the confiscation of
their land. That narrative is simply not true. Yes, farm
murders do occur and are more than isolated incidents. While
there might be a small political component to some of them,
I believe they are primarily criminal in nature.<br>
<br>
South Africa has implemented a structured land restitution
program, through which many white farmers have been
compensated fairly for their land. A law was passed last
year allowing land expropriation without compensation under
certain circumstances, but to the best of my knowledge, it
has not yet been applied. It is certainly not a free-for-all
license for Black South Africans to seize white-owned
farmland. Should expropriation be implemented, I believe it
will be in very limited cases, based on sound reasoning, and
executed in an orderly, legal manner.<br>
<br>
There is also a Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) program in
South Africa, which many Afrikaners view as reverse
discrimination. I have mixed feelings about BEE and support
it reluctantly. On the one hand, the economic disparities
between Blacks and Whites must be addressed — it is a sine
qua non for building a fair society. On the other hand, the
BEE program has notable shortcomings. However, since I
cannot offer a better alternative, I support it despite its
flaws. I do, however, criticize aspects of the program and
acknowledge its unintended negative consequences.<br>
<br>
Please keep in mind that these are my personal views. Many
white Afrikaners hold very different opinions — you’ll often
hear their voices on popular American podcasts these days.<br>
<br>
Now, let me share my general experience of living in South
Africa.<br>
<br>
As in the United States, South Africa is not one single
experience — there are many different “South Africas.” I
live on a farm just outside the small town of Gouritsmond in
the Western Cape, and I feel very safe here. The crime rate
is low, and there is a high level of trust between people of
all races. For example, a local farmer sells honey from a
box at his gate on the honour system — you take a bottle and
leave the money in a box. For my wife and me, our life on
the farm is paradise.<br>
<br>
But there are other parts of South Africa where life is very
different.<br>
<br>
In many deep rural areas and urban townships, especially
around major cities, Black South Africans live in appalling
conditions. The social fabric is weak, and crime — including
violent crime — is rampant. However, if you choose not to
spend time in these areas, it generally doesn’t affect your
daily life. But if you do, you are at high risk of becoming
a crime statistic.<br>
<br>
That said, if you are educated — and there are now probably
more educated Black South Africans than Whites — you are not
bound to those dangerous areas. There are plenty of safe,
livable areas where people of all backgrounds can lead happy
and fulfilling lives.<br>
<br>
Let me give you some examples from my own family.<br>
<br>
My wife and I have three married children. Our son lives and
works in Johannesburg. While he might be open to emigrating,
I don’t think his wife is — they are deeply embedded in a
strong, active community and would have to give up a lot to
leave. Recently, the small company he works for was acquired
by a Boston-based firm. He assures us there are no plans to
relocate, but I’m not so sure. As newlyweds, they spent two
years in Boston and, although they have nothing against it,
their hearts are in South Africa.<br>
<br>
Our eldest daughter, her husband, and their two young sons
have emigrated to Denmark. It seems unlikely they will
return to South Africa, except for visits. They met as
students and, after graduating, took a month-long holiday in
London. They came back inspired and determined to find a
country where they would want to live and work. Over the
next few years, they travelled widely and studied different
cultures before deciding that Denmark ticked all the boxes.
They made a plan, followed through, and are now very happy
there.<br>
<br>
Our youngest daughter also lives in Johannesburg with her
husband and children. They, too, have a vibrant community
life. Even if the opportunity arose, I cannot imagine them
choosing to emigrate. Her husband’s mother, perhaps
compensating for the lack of warmth in her own marriage, now
pours all her care into supporting their children — our
grandchildren. Our daughter is currently expecting another
baby, and it would make no sense for them to move abroad
under these circumstances.<br>
<br>
I believe my children’s situations are typical of young
families within my social circle in South Africa. Those who
wish to stay can build a fulfilling life here. Those who
wish to leave have options. Perhaps this will change in the
future, but it has been true for the past few decades.<br>
<br>
In conclusion, I want to reference Nietzsche’s concept of
the interplay between chaos and order.<br>
<br>
While a fulfilling life requires a balance between the two,
that balance differs from person to person. Some are more
comfortable with order; others thrive amid chaos.<br>
<br>
Many Afrikaners long for the perceived order of
apartheid-era South Africa and struggle to adapt to the more
chaotic reality of the present — and, sadly, racism often
plays a role in these sentiments. I am ashamed to admit
that, because these are my people. But not all Afrikaners
are racist. My family, for example, are not — my
daughter and her family simply prefer the orderly nature of
life in Denmark - there really is no racism attached to
this.<br>
<br>
Others, however, embrace the dynamic, changing environment
of South Africa, and find meaning in its challenges and
opportunities.<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 18 May 2025 at
20:18, steve smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Pieter
-<br>
> I'm an Afrikaner living on a farm in South Africa. I
recently came <br>
> across some of the claims circulating—especially from
the Trump <br>
> camp—about how dire things supposedly are for white
Afrikaner farmers <br>
> here.<br>
<br>
Do you actually refute Trump's characterizations?<br>
<br>
Like his statements effectively painting all Mexicans
(immigrant or <br>
not?) as "criminals and rapists", his statements suggest
that there is <br>
widespread personal violence against white South African
farmers leading <br>
to their death and then to confiscation of their land. Is
there any <br>
evidence that this *ever* happens? Or are there isolated
incidents of <br>
criminal violence (people are murdered everywhere in the
world from time <br>
to time) juxtaposed with culture/government-wide movements
to provide <br>
some level of restitution for the manner in which land was
transferred <br>
from indigenous peoples to colonists (of all stripes...
e.g. wealthy and <br>
powerful as well as those drawn along by them to do the
dirty work of <br>
breaking and working new land including possibly
displacing the current <br>
residents)?<br>
<br>
> Just to set the record straight: I don't identify
with that narrative. <br>
> Personally, I live very happily on the farm. I don’t
farm — I'm here <br>
> for the lifestyle, not agriculture — and to me, it
honestly feels like <br>
> paradise. I don’t feel threatened at all.<br>
> Of course, not all white farmers in South Africa have
the same <br>
> experience. Some do face real challenges, and
discrimination does <br>
> exist. But the situation is complex, and like in
every society, there <br>
> are both positives and negatives. No country is
perfect.<br>
I also live on a plot of rural land which is nominally
"farmland" though <br>
the only farming that has occurred here is a homestead
garden (60' <br>
diameter circle), a handful of fruit trees and a small
flock of <br>
chickens, all established by myself through my 25 years
present. My 1.5 <br>
acres is roughly 1/5 of 6 acres that were carved out of
the middle of a <br>
sovereign "pueblo" that was "granted" by the King of Spain
in 1623 to <br>
the Tewa speaking people living here, very likely direct
descendents of <br>
the "ancestral puebloans" (formerly termed "Anasazi").
The grant <br>
stated "1 league in each cardinal direction from the
entrance to the <br>
cemetary of the Catholic church). this measure (nearly)
abuts another <br>
4-league-square granted at the same time by the same time
with the same <br>
"stride" (vara) which defined what a league was (5000
varas - 2.6 <br>
miles)... Mine was *taken* from the pueblo in the early
60s by the <br>
private electric company serving much of NM (PNM) to build
a transformer <br>
station which was in fact never built. I couldn't find
records but <br>
standard practice (and law) at the time would have
involved a (forced) <br>
payment to the Pueblo. In the 70s the first private
title to the <br>
whole plot showed up under the name of a couple and a
single man who <br>
apparently were contriving to build a modest mobile home
(aka trailer) <br>
park on the property. My well and the electric power feed
(a co=op not <br>
PNM) were sized for this purpose (for better and worse).
Ultimately <br>
the mobile home park failed to materialize and the
property was <br>
subdivided into my 1.5 acres and 4 other plots just over 1
acre each. 3 <br>
of those plots now have modern construction/styled
commuter homes owned <br>
by folks who were commuting to LANL (as I was when I
bought in 2001) 15 <br>
miles up the hill. I believe that the Pueblo had the
opportunity to <br>
reclaim the land at the point it was sold into private
hands and missed <br>
it (likely for the price they were paid).<br>
> I just wanted to say: yes, I’m a white Afrikaner
living on a farm in <br>
> South Africa—but I’m not one of those Trump talks
about. For me, this <br>
> is the best place on earth.<br>
<br>
I can imagine that it is similar but quite different from
my own <br>
experience here. Another Pieter from South Africa
(Mathematician at <br>
LANL) declares that the only place he finds more beautiful
than his <br>
homeland of SA is right here. I think he is at least
partly <br>
referencing the distance from the Apartheid context he
grew up in (but <br>
left for college at 18) and the *opportunities* he found a
US national <br>
laboratory with (historically) good funding and broad
areas of <br>
application for a pure mathematician (working in the
T/Theoretical <br>
Division).<br>
<br>
My main purpose in opening this response to your
statements about <br>
Trump's characterization of Afrikaner "refugees" is to
reflect on the <br>
implications of European, exploration, colonization, the
ensuing <br>
displacements and genocide of indigenous populations
followed by <br>
variations on "Apartheid" as well as the importation of
literal <br>
*enslaved peoples* and the related "indentured servitude"
and "company <br>
store" tactics that the capitalist/ruling class often uses
to establish <br>
and maintain a virtually free workforce.<br>
<br>
My acutely "Conservative" friends would call my self
reflection on such <br>
topics "Liberal Self-Loathing" when in fact I experience
it as an <br>
attempt to reflect on my place and part in history
(including <br>
future-history) and looking for opportunities *within my
jurisdiction* <br>
to act differently than I might if I bought into one of
the outstanding <br>
narratives. My 3 modestly MAGA neighbors hold that "this
was an <br>
original Spanish Homestead passed down generationally" ,in
spite of all <br>
of our Title histories when purchased showing the PNM
(first) title. <br>
It is also the case that our area was entirely unbuildable
(or farmable) <br>
before the US highway right next to us was built,
redirecting <br>
floodwaters. Our properties were essentially a (mild)
floodplain which <br>
are now protected by the roadbed which directs the water
through everal <br>
culverts, collecting the runoff into one large and two
small arroyos. <br>
The pueblo acequias end about 200 meters uphill from us in
a field <br>
intermittently planted with (ritual) corn. We have an
acutely high <br>
water table because of our topography and proximity to the
Rio Grande so <br>
pumped well irrigation is reasonable in spite of the
landscape being <br>
acutely dry high-desert in a growing drought context.<br>
<br>
Reviews of the maps of the Pueblo reflect the incremental
addition of 3 <br>
acequias (irrigation ditches) over the 17,18,19c opening
up <br>
significantly more land for irrigation farming. Many
argue that the <br>
land was "useless" until the Spanish Colonists (aka
Conquistadors) built <br>
these acequias (designed after the Moorish
tradition/style) and <br>
therefore should "belong" to the Spanish Colonists who
directed the <br>
natives themselves in the construction of the acequias.
Of course, the <br>
conquistadors brought no women with them in the early
waves of conquest <br>
so all descendants of proud Spanish noblemen are very much
indigenous <br>
genetically. For the most part the "land grants" held
through the <br>
Mexican revolution and then the Mexican-American war and
US <br>
Territoriality in 1848. There are very few Tewa surnames
remaining in <br>
the pueblos, most are Spanish, and there are a very few
distinctly <br>
European Spanish descendants among the local populations.
The <br>
boundaries of the pueblos have expanded a little through
various US <br>
grants and trades to include their traditional range... to
include some <br>
of their hunting grounds in the mountains *outside* the 2
leagues <br>
square. Many pueblo members live off pueblo,
unrecognizeably different <br>
than many of the Hispanic and even Anglo populations.<br>
<br>
My "liberal self-loathing" instinct is to repatriate the
land I bought <br>
25 years ago to the Pueblo in some way. Their own
governance is <br>
dysfunctional enough as are their attempts to *buy* back
inholdings such <br>
as mine that I am not clear on how to do that without
making a bigger <br>
mess. There is a Tewa Womens Alliance which formed 40
years ago <br>
originally to respond to domestic violence within the
native families <br>
which has expanded their charter to do quite a few
progressive things <br>
including re-establishing traditional farming and craft
techniques and <br>
preserve the Tewa language (there are 4 distantly related
puebloan <br>
language groups in the region). I believe they might be
able to parlay <br>
my little "homestead" into something which vaguely
supports the people <br>
that it nominally belonged to when De Vargas and Onate
(later) came <br>
charging in with "guns, germs, steel" 500 years ago.<br>
<br>
I was fascinated, BTW to discover that your own (Capetown)
European <br>
history predates even Columbus' journey with a visit in
1488 by <br>
Dias... the complexity of Portuquese, Dutch, French
Huguenaut, English <br>
exploration/colonization is quite fascinating and at least
as hard to <br>
untangle as any.<br>
<br>
The bigger question is how to embrace the complexity and
diversity that <br>
comes with these overlays of overlays without compounding
the errors of <br>
the past. If Trump's framing of the Afrikaner "plight" is
accurate then <br>
someone has been perpetuating the original problem in a
(tiny) way <br>
similar to what the victims of the Jewish Holocaust are
perpetrating on <br>
the Palestinians (particularly Gaza at this moment). The
only "open" <br>
hostilities amongst the folks in this region express
themselves moslty <br>
in struggles over water rights and roadway and utility
right-of-ways <br>
with the Spanish land-grant descendants mostly
antagonistic with the <br>
Pueblos. Most Anglos recognize they are latecomers and
that for the <br>
most part the legal system supports them (us) well.<br>
<br>
Our (Euro-American colonists) genocide and slavery history
does not <br>
leave us much room for criticizing others... most of the
ugliness is <br>
well hidden but non-trivial.<br>
<br>
- Steve<br>
<br>
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