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<p>my guess is that Nick (like many of us) is just trying to get a
handle on some Thermodynamic concepts intuitively, by making up
his own simple examples and building on them? A little
world-building/exploration by some measure?<br>
</p>
<p>Entropy is perhaps the most arcane (but not occult) of
thermodynamic concepts and in the top handful in all of physics?
Pressure, Temperature, and Volume are roughly directly
apprehensible with the likes of Energy, Work, Ergodicity,
Equilibrium, Reversibility taking a little more thought, and
Entropy, Enthalpy, and the wycked mother of them all the Partition
Function (Z) really difficult to think about in their own terms.</p>
<p>Entropy blends <span data-start="179" data-end="210">macroscopic
state functions</span> with <span data-start="216"
data-end="253">microscopic statistical behaviors</span>. It
resists <span data-start="268" data-end="298">single-intuition
anchoring</span>: it's about disorder, information,
irreversibility, energy quality, and more.</p>
<p>Over decades, starting with a BS in Physics, I have been through
the combinatorics of iso baric/choric/thermal (PVT)systems and all
of their combinations, designed to implement the suite of common
cycles (rankine, stirling, otto, diesel, etc) at different times
and while that helped to carve out an intuition for the other
more abstract quantities (like Entropy). I don't know I've ever
been lead directly to those, instead having to absorb (much of?)
the full suite of examples to begin to appreciate the arcane
(albeit not quite occult) quantities?</p>
<p>Ruth and Bruce would have a few canned examples to work through
which is sometimes a good way to get there, but sometimes there is
nothing more satisfying than making up your own narratives and
exploring their implications, providing your world-building is
consistent and coherent. George is a very patient copilot in such
adventures, if not always the perfect navigator?</p>
<p>I'm probably just stirring (increasing the entropy of this
thread)?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/25 2:47 PM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfov6aHvfmyE7mT3FrUt_QqbbnePyKD5REzEXjrRhJ0ybQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p dir="ltr">I supplied another prompt to Géminis which i thought
would yield an illuminating response:</p>
<p dir="ltr">What is isentropic expansion?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Isentropic expansion is a thermodynamic process where
a substance (usually a gas) expands without any change in its
entropy. This is an idealized process, meaning it assumes two
key conditions:<br>
* Adiabatic: No heat is transferred into or out of the system.<br>
* Reversible: There are no irreversible losses due to factors
like friction, turbulence, or unrestrained expansion.<br>
Because entropy is a measure of disorder or randomness in a
system, a constant entropy implies that the process is as
efficient as possible, with no energy "lost" or converted into
less useful forms.<br>
Key characteristics of isentropic expansion:<br>
* Constant entropy (\Delta S = 0): This is the defining
characteristic.<br>
* No heat transfer (\text{Q} = 0): Since the process is
adiabatic.<br>
* Decrease in temperature: As the substance expands and does
work, its internal energy decreases, leading to a drop in
temperature. This is in contrast to an isothermal expansion
where heat would be added to maintain constant temperature.<br>
* Decrease in pressure: As the volume increases and temperature
drops, the pressure of the substance also decreases.<br>
Why is it important?<br>
Isentropic expansion is a crucial concept in thermodynamics and
engineering for several reasons:<br>
* Idealized model: It serves as a theoretical benchmark against
which real-world processes can be compared. No real process is
perfectly isentropic, but understanding this ideal helps
engineers evaluate how efficiently actual systems operate.<br>
* Efficiency calculations: The concept of isentropic efficiency
is used to measure how closely an actual expansion process (like
in a turbine) approaches the ideal isentropic case. This helps
in designing more efficient engines and power systems.<br>
* Design and analysis: It's fundamental to the design and
analysis of various engineering systems, including:<br>
* Turbines: In gas and steam turbines, hot, high-pressure
fluids expand to produce work. Isentropic expansion helps
determine the maximum work output.<br>
* Nozzles: In applications like rocket propulsion and jet
engines, nozzles are designed to accelerate fluids to high
velocities through isentropic expansion.<br>
* Internal combustion engines: The expansion (power) stroke
in these engines is often approximated as an isentropic process
for analysis.<br>
* Refrigeration cycles: Isentropic expansion plays a role in
these cycles as well.<br>
In essence, isentropic expansion represents the most efficient
possible expansion of a fluid, and while it's an idealization,
it provides a powerful tool for understanding, analyzing, and
optimizing energy conversion systems.<br>
</p>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 17, 2025, 2:44 PM
Santafe <<a href="mailto:desmith@santafe.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">desmith@santafe.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="line-break:after-white-space">Hi Nick,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes; I can report how things appear to me. Feel free
to growl that they are not correct. I will stay away from
making claims about what things, or you, “are”. I have no
access to that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What I see is you sort-of-demanding that the terms that
happen to interest you will be the terms in which natural
phenomena admit an understanding. So you give more and
more elaborate descriptions of experiments and ask about
outcomes, but you leave out 2/3 of the specification that
an actual outcome would depend on, as somebody pointed out
in this latest case about the tapping. This is why
Marcus’s advocacy of putting things into an algorithm is
so central. If a machine generates an algorithm, it might
do so by simply making guesses about all the things you
didn’t actually tell it, but at least, for the algorithm
to exist, we will have an explicit record of what its
assumptions were. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your comments about category errors upped the ante on
that; I see them as a premise that the terms you choose
going in, and the rules of argument you learned in
parochial school, will grant you access through thinking
to how nature really is. That’s why I called you a
metaphysician before (and at which you growled).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What I saw was people repeatedly telling you that, when
the part of humanity that works in this area uses “the
entropy” referring to equilibrium, they have the property
of “being constructed to mean a state function” entailed
in that term, and then you continued to make
assertion-statements that entropy is not a function
determinable by whatever one means by “a state”. One
response to such a situation might be to ask “Hmm; I
wonder what-all they mean when they say `a state’; they
might not be telling me enough for me to follow them.”
Or, one could conclude that they are making category
errors, and that your rules of argument from parochial
school tell you what those errors are. Choosing to do the
latter, to me, is as close as one can get in real life, to
the pupil for whom the master pours tea, and continues to
pour after the cup is full. The student asks why do you
keep pouring when the cup is full? etc. The standard
story.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It’s interesting: I would be the last one to criticize
anybody for trying to understand something in other terms
that occur to him, than those that a field conventionally
uses. I very much like that mode of working, and it is
mostly what I do — not through any greatness of soul; just
because I can’t follow other people, so I grab on where I
can from my own proclivities. Mostly I end up in a mess
that way, too. So the difference is all in what you do
when you hit a snag, and the people around you seem to be
able to coordinate with each other enough to be getting
something done. It’s evidence, to at least be reflected
upon. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your statement "I’ve gone back to feeling that I don’t
even know enough to ask a question.” struck me as a
glimmering of the recognition that we don’t get to dictate
to nature the terms in which phenomena become
understandable. Those terms are something we have to
figure out along the way, along with the rules of argument
that apply to them. Glen has written in many posts (a
burst of them a year or two ago) about the role of
embedded practice in this “coming to terms”. Of course,
we can always dictate. (We used to say “It’s a free
country”; though that seems more awkward now.) But
wherever that dictation gets you, it won’t be
understanding.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyway. DaveW can tell you that I don’t understand
anything about Zen or about any contemplative tradition.
(And if he can’t tell you that, I can find others who
will. It is a *secret* in the closed hand!) But I hear
these things that come out of the various literatures, and
they often seem to me like delightful distillations of how
people are; just the kind of things you would expect
cultures to keep and to transmit over millennia, through
innumerable hands, because they bring the world into
better focus.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Eric</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jun 18, 2025, at 1:01, Nicholas Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> I
did not understand, and wanted to understand, your
zen comment. <span> </span><span
style="font-size:16px">I am reluctant to ask you
to punch the tar baby again . You are, of
course, under no obligation to cure my madness
or buffer my aging. But given the coincidence
between that comment and DaveW's, who often
presses Zen on me, I thought you might be
pointing at something there I should pay close
attention to.</span></div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">It
will be ok. You was born and bred in a briar
patch. </div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Nick </div>
<hr
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline-block;width:698.734375px"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important"></span>
<div id="m_7979061136628741176divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><font
style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b><span> </span>Friam
<<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of Santafe <<a
href="mailto:desmith@santafe.edu"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">desmith@santafe.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Monday, June 16, 2025
11:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>The Friday Morning
Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [FRIAM] Entropy
RE-redux</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;line-break:after-white-space">Zen
moment Nick: <br
id="m_7979061136628741176x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jun 17, 2025, at 12:00, Nicholas
Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto"> I’ve gone back to feeling
that I don’t even know enough to ask a
question.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just there for an instant, the teacup
dipped below full. btw.: this sentence is a
wonderful encapsulation of the difference
between the metaphysician and the scientist.
Welcome back.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Frank’s language below is good. It’s work
to understand it, of course, but the crucial
starting point is that it admits an
understanding because there is a consistent
thing being asserted.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Eric</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">
<div>You've probably done this.
Nick.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Yes, entropy (S)
is a state variable in
thermodynamics.</div>
<div dir="auto">Here's what that
means:</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Definition of a
State Variable: A state variable
(or state function) is a
property of a thermodynamic
system that depends only on the
current state of the system, not
on the path or process taken to
reach that state. If a system is
in a particular equilibrium
state, its state variables will
have specific, unique values.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Why Entropy is
a State Variable:</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Path
Independence: The change in
entropy between two states is
the same regardless of the
reversible or irreversible path
taken to go from the initial
state to the final state.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Unique Value
for a Given State: For any given
equilibrium state of a system
(defined by other state
variables like temperature,
pressure, and volume), there is
a unique value of entropy.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Mathematical
Property: Mathematically, a
quantity is a state variable if
its differential is an exact
differential, meaning that its
integral over a closed path is
zero. This is true for entropy.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Contrast with
Path Variables: In contrast,
quantities like heat (Q) and
work (W) are not state
variables. The amount of heat
transferred or work done depends
entirely on the specific path
followed during a process.</div>
<div dir="auto">In summary,
entropy is a fundamental
property that characterizes the
state of a thermodynamic system
and is independent of its
history.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
<a
href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,+Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g"
moz-do-not-send="true">140 Calle
Ojo Feliz,</a><span> </span><br>
<a
href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,+Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g"
moz-do-not-send="true">Santa Fe,
NM 87505</a><br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Jun 15, 2025,
9:27 AM Nicholas Thompson <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Same setup as before.
Cylinder with two plungers
and a peggable slider at
dead center. Lets fill our
compartments with bbs of the
same volume. Unpeg the
divider. Now lets tap on
the two opposite plungers
with a series of blows of
the same average magnitude
but different but different
positive skew in the
distribution of magnitudes.
Will the divider move?</div>
<span>--<span> </span></span><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Nicholas S. Thompson</div>
<div>Emeritus Professor of
Psychology and Ethology</div>
<div>Clark University</div>
<div><a
href="mailto:nthompson@clarku.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nthompson@clarku.edu</a></div>
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target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a></span><br>
<span>archives: 5/2017 thru present<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,ibvUL-sixbzUhBmrJbbdT0RGRn4L-YZuvmUXeT22TykXg2oQMX_lf7RL5cvKIWALIv9Tr5NZSMhQCXgFVuaJ2za4ocZe6MUsorygsTpTj1iW&typo=1&ancr_add=1"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a></span><br>
<span> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a></span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .-
.-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . /
.- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe /
Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,29c0_V7sCDMsG5E-lv7MwbcNH5_3NKuBy2xwVomTfytNJZGNRcSdcYL74S6HcPXgRokI_EIGBJZNl7vuR_9o8L1G_eT3hzsaa_di3kiJXxLqeJjIAJxmfdJpHNQ1&typo=1"
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to (un)subscribe<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,narwDdwYSZWqlfxTz6IVD2Z-PuwhGsZaM2Td6RcnaMIK16YDDz89y2o6hTFN1M_YbP6xEW8LRsHzzw1qeVBqHG6H4ZkfFHEWatWJvrQWau0NGMt4K7ftNuTp4EE,&typo=1"
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FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,VweAxnc7YFjjH0Q2ipr7KMJGlm8-ynlZmOKwHdF2WREDixY7m6DcjkRIpxYwcKH44DiXq_nQXba1gr7ZcoYKqTHfTyBMH7zwrIuiacv2sAVoqm1j4LSBAvH1&typo=1"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
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archives: 5/2017 thru present<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,xabKQnlOYB2z5wqASXegKpK3UbjxDii1cSJ6hNbEFWPEpQQx0tiO7VSbf75x1HoRM1UkNyiQjuftR1jsYzHEt-3CxpsjLwulIXv7Ol2DJKdFMhBRd9c,&typo=1"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,xabKQnlOYB2z5wqASXegKpK3UbjxDii1cSJ6hNbEFWPEpQQx0tiO7VSbf75x1HoRM1UkNyiQjuftR1jsYzHEt-3CxpsjLwulIXv7Ol2DJKdFMhBRd9c,&typo=1</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">.-
.-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . /
.-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..-
... . ..-. ..- .-..</span><br
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">FRIAM
Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">Fridays
9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays
9a-12p Zoom<span> </span></span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Vl8lp9pTTyvC10-anv0N-Z8riS2aEjKEnXavhSMyxtL-U3b7aSy6_UPNi9XOUlD6hv9YQK2oBEGgUw4-QrQUlf8xLwZzDwlXxUBREYK-&typo=1"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Vl8lp9pTTyvC10-anv0N-Z8riS2aEjKEnXavhSMyxtL-U3b7aSy6_UPNi9XOUlD6hv9YQK2oBEGgUw4-QrQUlf8xLwZzDwlXxUBREYK-&typo=1</a><br
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">to
(un)subscribe<span> </span></span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,lGajjb19XipFEnJVR5nxlXZVCvzECtobK5vusxUS226IB-DMZtbsZcwMNRW0l-Mo-HXrcq4VWQxO0AMvREgg_d3lm-oXUm_c7Pp4nMTQXZI,&typo=1"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,lGajjb19XipFEnJVR5nxlXZVCvzECtobK5vusxUS226IB-DMZtbsZcwMNRW0l-Mo-HXrcq4VWQxO0AMvREgg_d3lm-oXUm_c7Pp4nMTQXZI,&typo=1</a><br
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span></span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,JDVc4zcZJNTw7K40AmZ8EcGBPnMGvhdr4C5Nt8DZcMvAetwLbCGMmVqj75xzVDzxqX2VvChTiF7wnqZgHehuRORF3Dqdmifw4V4lTHH37nGxYWivOIhBDg,,&typo=1"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,JDVc4zcZJNTw7K40AmZ8EcGBPnMGvhdr4C5Nt8DZcMvAetwLbCGMmVqj75xzVDzxqX2VvChTiF7wnqZgHehuRORF3Dqdmifw4V4lTHH37nGxYWivOIhBDg,,&typo=1</a><br
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">archives:
5/2017 thru present<span> </span></span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Supir20nRIG4PWPxR5X1dFq-EgyitRIcRX6uZIMtr4rVaFap6YU4YC_AWvibDO2WEySi8BDNXZUMD5wRqIopFWFUtt0dzbieAjlt0KIC4p-0vKGW5lxYwWQH4Sw,&typo=1"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Supir20nRIG4PWPxR5X1dFq-EgyitRIcRX6uZIMtr4rVaFap6YU4YC_AWvibDO2WEySi8BDNXZUMD5wRqIopFWFUtt0dzbieAjlt0KIC4p-0vKGW5lxYwWQH4Sw,&typo=1</a><br
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important"> 1/2003
thru 6/2021 </span><a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-.
--- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p
Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a>
to (un)subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
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