<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I did not understand, and wanted to understand, your zen comment. <span style="font-size: 16px;">
I am reluctant to ask you to punch the tar baby again . You are, of course, under no obligation to cure my madness or buffer my aging. But given the coincidence between that comment and DaveW's, who often presses Zen on me, I thought you might be pointing
at something there I should pay close attention to.</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
It will be ok. You was born and bred in a briar patch. </div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Nick </div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of Santafe <desmith@santafe.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 16, 2025 11:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Entropy RE-redux</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="line-break:after-white-space">Zen moment Nick: <br id="x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jun 17, 2025, at 12:00, Nicholas Thompson <thompnickson2@gmail.com> wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir="auto"> I’ve gone back to feeling that I don’t even know enough to ask a question.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just there for an instant, the teacup dipped below full. btw.: this sentence is a wonderful encapsulation of the difference between the metaphysician and the scientist. Welcome back.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Frank’s language below is good. It’s work to understand it, of course, but the crucial starting point is that it admits an understanding because there is a consistent thing being asserted.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Eric</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">
<div>You've probably done this. Nick.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Yes, entropy (S) is a state variable in thermodynamics.</div>
<div dir="auto">Here's what that means:</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Definition of a State Variable: A state variable (or state function) is a property of a thermodynamic system that depends only on the current state of the system, not on the path or process taken to reach that state. If a system is in a particular
equilibrium state, its state variables will have specific, unique values.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Why Entropy is a State Variable:</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Path Independence: The change in entropy between two states is the same regardless of the reversible or irreversible path taken to go from the initial state to the final state.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Unique Value for a Given State: For any given equilibrium state of a system (defined by other state variables like temperature, pressure, and volume), there is a unique value of entropy.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Mathematical Property: Mathematically, a quantity is a state variable if its differential is an exact differential, meaning that its integral over a closed path is zero. This is true for entropy.</div>
<div dir="auto"> * Contrast with Path Variables: In contrast, quantities like heat (Q) and work (W) are not state variables. The amount of heat transferred or work done depends entirely on the specific path followed during a process.</div>
<div dir="auto">In summary, entropy is a fundamental property that characterizes the state of a thermodynamic system and is independent of its history.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote x_gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 15, 2025, 9:27 AM Nicholas Thompson <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Same setup as before. Cylinder with two plungers and a peggable slider at dead center. Lets fill our compartments with bbs of the same volume. Unpeg the divider. Now lets tap on the two opposite plungers with a series of blows of the same average magnitude
but different but different positive skew in the distribution of magnitudes. Will the divider move?</div>
<span class="x_gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Nicholas S. Thompson</div>
<div>Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology</div>
<div>Clark University</div>
<div><a href="mailto:nthompson@clarku.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nthompson@clarku.edu</a></div>
<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson&c=E,1,66C6e2iSekxSeQbiB_ZsTxOriBnqwKBTLqh8i1LVfbmh_RUPGnaMoA2X0XzGSNY1OSNIGVKq5JGhttJ4FEmJsNpv71mRlspOCeviAChun__2&typo=1" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,BBKRTt4iFNsT5hMJU7rVcZSxntpugmlSgu9hX9cMJ_QhLeyhLrxxkxKv-P5miwe0cnkQ8euuSE_CptqRlYymzx6sv9n6b_ubJoD-Ubhc4aY,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
to (un)subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,EuB38SmBSUsER7IYs45xj1vr8aNX1gP6TqAjyCJmzJo7Q4_mWxteMm8_6TiBNwdor8YQ2sD9Anx3IEEYGqYiZwQKRB9AoQ1oPLQmaIF3xQ39n8M,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,vxkYUu-RTlLoom4ATOr6za_sCJODY-pohihN7VWApEgNXnNN_wnqau8JX-jiV5ZPIvXIjFX6-wL0GGZECLQMOpEtcFku0tJcrK9GbXg8&typo=1" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,bGMLn_HEWjVKvfbeD6AxHcYR4hAvxKK_nnp8yy-DZ0mpuHMK2Yu_eCKjXf1AlZi1cgUeqYB6AVFELOl-Fyn8kP4HwEQSaTGaiyCsgbdSYhlDMxN5uNRL&typo=1" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span>.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..</span><br>
<span>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv</span><br>
<span>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,cqm3iCTcWjaTVVKLVOBIRAkZQiGj8ltut_wtFgHXbGpR_Hpd0Sz_5Y12W8lRMk0JEFRLTFA_29OiUoY_3fUWdFKehG_L2RvraFMZhZPctqZT0HB7bmMPshW7j7xh&typo=1&ancr_add=1">
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a></span><br>
<span>to (un)subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,HJh9vAg4Q2ZeEk6PxTDcbyYIBPShqZLt1ozglVcvOcrUfLVbI7PxIRy1wh__CtmXCaqwvtsAL5QGBiZMyFeHUIEmqppHyl5011tIosvO&typo=1&ancr_add=1">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a></span><br>
<span>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,qSOfuxHpLiXDrPqnHyKryb4tbbjBeisvHBEV3OxGZcSOMZpds-4AjvdOyxW5_9RMg-ccKioExMlgrckIQQLk7Fm-C14q70wgDUkTTPvB&typo=1&ancr_add=1">
http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a></span><br>
<span>archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,ibvUL-sixbzUhBmrJbbdT0RGRn4L-YZuvmUXeT22TykXg2oQMX_lf7RL5cvKIWALIv9Tr5NZSMhQCXgFVuaJ2za4ocZe6MUsorygsTpTj1iW&typo=1&ancr_add=1">
https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a></span><br>
<span> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,29c0_V7sCDMsG5E-lv7MwbcNH5_3NKuBy2xwVomTfytNJZGNRcSdcYL74S6HcPXgRokI_EIGBJZNl7vuR_9o8L1G_eT3hzsaa_di3kiJXxLqeJjIAJxmfdJpHNQ1&typo=1<br>
to (un)subscribe https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,narwDdwYSZWqlfxTz6IVD2Z-PuwhGsZaM2Td6RcnaMIK16YDDz89y2o6hTFN1M_YbP6xEW8LRsHzzw1qeVBqHG6H4ZkfFHEWatWJvrQWau0NGMt4K7ftNuTp4EE,&typo=1<br>
FRIAM-COMIC https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,VweAxnc7YFjjH0Q2ipr7KMJGlm8-ynlZmOKwHdF2WREDixY7m6DcjkRIpxYwcKH44DiXq_nQXba1gr7ZcoYKqTHfTyBMH7zwrIuiacv2sAVoqm1j4LSBAvH1&typo=1<br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,xabKQnlOYB2z5wqASXegKpK3UbjxDii1cSJ6hNbEFWPEpQQx0tiO7VSbf75x1HoRM1UkNyiQjuftR1jsYzHEt-3CxpsjLwulIXv7Ol2DJKdFMhBRd9c,&typo=1<br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>