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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e7307078-ecc7-4be5-a423-a200107deb93@gmail.com">
<blockquote type="cite">In this system, money is really just a
record — “Here’s what I contributed, and here’s what I can claim
in return.” It’s flexible, decentralized, and surprisingly
efficient.
<br>
<br>
So far, no government in sight.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>government is square in the middle of it by issuing and endorsing
currency, even if it nominally has intrinsic value (like
silver/gold coin)... the government is endorsing the
authenticity of the "coin" as being of "fair weight" and "proper
composition" under penalty of punishment for forgery. Many coins
still have ridges around the perimeter to prevent "shaving" them
(not nickels or pennies in the US, and pennies haven't been
copper, and nickels haven't been nickle and dimes and quarters and
halves and fulls haven't been silver for a half a century now, so
what is to shave?).</p>
<p>The US confederacy (and lots of other "governments") have printed
money which was only as valuable as the paper it was printed on
(albeit now sullied with pictures of their heroes). Even today I
think there are hoards of such "currency" available for purchase
still at a fraction of face-value... "collectors novelties" as it
were? <br>
</p>
<p>Yes, a "distributed ledger" but only as good as the rules for how
to generate new "tokens" (printing) and how to validate them
(anti-forgery).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e7307078-ecc7-4be5-a423-a200107deb93@gmail.com">
<blockquote type="cite">
<br>
But Wait — Here Comes the Government
<br>
Governments step in because, well, someone needs to organize a
few things we all need: roads, hospitals, armies, cat memes
(okay, maybe not those). Also, someone has to stop the money
system from melting down.
<br>
<br>
To do this, governments collect taxes and (spoiler alert) borrow
money.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>this is all (in the ideal/abstract) about managing "the
commons"... many of us *want* their to be a way for there to exist
a robust and viable commons we can all synergistically draw from,
but in the spirit of "the tragedy of" we know that some people
like to take "their half out of the middle" and believe in memes
like 'finder's keepers' and 'possession is 90% of the law', etc.
<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e7307078-ecc7-4be5-a423-a200107deb93@gmail.com">
<blockquote type="cite">
<br>
Borrowing isn’t bad, in theory. But here’s the rub: both major
U.S. parties seem to have developed a taste for borrowing like
there’s no tomorrow. Debt keeps growing, interest payments
balloon, and one day — surprise! — the interest alone starts
eating the budget.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>And now for MY "Just so" story.</p>
<p>I do believe that there is a long history of the dysfunctional
relationship between ruling classes and merchant classes, with the
peasant's feeling both sets of heels grinding the same (or
similar) on their necks while being told by both that "it is in
your best interest, trust us". <br>
</p>
<p>Yet, the peasantry (anyone not commanding undue resources by
capital ownership or divine declaration or threat of violence)
also find it convenient to have the "distributed ledger" for their
exchange of goods with folks they don't know. <br>
</p>
<p>This is where my UOMe comes in... among neighbors and friends
and repeat customers, those bits of copper or silver (with high
quality stamping presumably beyond anyone but those "in charge"
and with ridges to prevent shaving) or well printed on special
paper with holographic strips embedded, anti-forgery "promissory
notes" are only conveniences. It beats faulty asymmetric
memories and reduces the needs for ledger books, and avoids the
awkwardness of the country doctor having to maintain a poultry
farm to make useful all the chickens his patients bring him in
barter for his alms and tinctures. <br>
</p>
<p>When does an IOU become a UOMe? When the trust breaks down.
When the proferring of an IOU is no longer a friendly, mutualistic
act of presumed symmetric, synergistic exchange which presumably
delivers excess value to both parties . When one wants something
from someone else they aren't prepared or inclined to share... be
it their eggs, their chickens, or the whole shebang (formerly
known ans "lock, stock and barrel"?) including the coop, the house
you live in and maybe your wife and daughters too. <br>
</p>
<p>Elon Musk (fondly aka Elno) holds (somewhere in bank records?)
hundreds of billions of UOMe's which he regularly throws around at
people (and corporations and governments and ...) to *demand* that
the folks living in or near Boca Chica close their windows and
replace their HEPA filters regularly as the exhaust from his
rockets (and occasional fireworks displays) disperse toxic waste
into the air and water (and soil, and bodies of themselves, their
plants and pets, their children, etc) in return for a few UOMe's
he might dribble onto them out of his coffers. Similar, the
folks Near Memphis, and gawdelpus if we know all the other places
his "filthy lucre" is sullying "the commons" and
seducing/intimidating the peasants. <br>
</p>
<p>When Elno grabs a fistful of UOMe's and points them at the
"ruling class" (aka elected officials, in particular those who are
bought and paid for by folks like him already) and threatens to
"primary" them, These are definitely UOMe's not IOUs. And when
with the *other* fist he offers these "chits" to folks who promise
to help him expand his influence and take more from the commons
than he already does. He is winking and nodding to them so they
understand those are UOMes which they in turn can use to seduce
and intimidate (yet) others. <br>
</p>
<p>Meanwhile the good people of Memphis and Boca Chica and (and and)
are (mostly) gently taking those UOMes and using them like IOUs
with one another... asking one another, "may I please have some of
those eggs for this fistful of IOUs I got from Elno's bursar?".
And little does Alice know when she asks Bob this question that
Bob made a similar request of Charlene who drove up in a truck
full of eggs that morning, though Alice must wonder "where DO
those eggs come from?"... a few transactional chains later and
we see Zekiel standing in a hot, humid, smelly, possibly unhealthy
(read "miasmic") factory egg-farm either hating or loving that he
gets to/has to pick each hen up and squeeze an egg out of it every
day whether it wants to share or not. And Zekeil and Yolanda
(his boss) both hate the part of the job where one out of 100 hens
needs to be "culled" because they either no longer give over an
egg when squeezed daily, or have lost too many feather's to their
neighbor's frustrated beak, or didn't eat enough anti-biotic-laced
food, or maybe got the batch with ground up chickens in it that
didn't have the salmonella sterilized out of it well enough...
or... <br>
</p>
<p>But Yolanda and Zekeil will join Xavier and Wendy at the pub
after their 12 hour shift and maybe have a pickled egg with their
beer made of "rocky mountain tumwater" 6 states away... where
another Wally and Xandia and Yarvis and Zadie are drinking beer
made from water drawn directly from (hopefully filtered) the
industrial sludged river that until a few years ago used to catch
on fire regularly. Elno and Donald and Jeff and Zuck and Thiel
and Palmer and Cathy (Wood) and Kristy Noem and Laura Ingraham
will all tell us stories about how good our "free market economy"
is for us and how "democracy delievered a mandate to the cheetoh
colored Jesus" and so forth and so on.</p>
<p>"Don't let me get off on a Rant here!" (nod to Dennis Miller
circa 1995)</p>
<p>Meanwhile, HOW DO we maintain (cultivate?) a "commons" in an
"enlightened self-interest" way? The famous "tragedy" is a
tragedy at the hands of someone... and the wide distribution of
UOMes seems to help accellerate said tragedizing... can a commons
be recognized, maintained, developed without lots of IOUs and do
they have to (self) transform into UOMes to do that "good work"?
<br>
</p>
<p>For the Christers (and Yawhey and Allah) folks here there was
once a commons called "the Garden of Eden". But with our IOUs
and UOMes for leverage, we conflated our Paradises with Parking
lots.</p>
<p>And in the spirit of "one more thing" I wonder if there isn't a
small town somewhere in the deep south or backwoods of Appalachy
where there is still in circulation Confederate Currency. but
what makes it work is that when someone offers an IOU, they sign
their name on the bill... which formalizes the gentlewoman's
agreement that when that note is offered back it will be received
with no question. Maybe folks don't actually have to sign every
note every time, they can just recognize and defer to other
upstanding members of the community with good handwriting who have
signed a particular note, trusting that if the proferror isn't
around to take it back next week when the surpluses are reversed,
the guy who signed it might have something they want or maybe yet
another third-party will be eager to have a note signed by Andrew
jackson hisself? Or Uncle Carmen?</p>
<p>I wonder if there is a secondary market for Trump Watches,
Sneakers, Vodka, Water, TU diplomas, fight-fight-fight Challenge
Coins, etc? Maybe a red Tesler (sic) with "lots of computer" is
worth more because DJT "signed" it olfactoraly by passing some
McDonalds' induced gas when he sat in it? Or has sod from the
White House Lawn stuck in it's tire treads? <br>
</p>
<p>Maybe this is what will pass for "currency" in the
wealthy-peoples'-bunkers post-jackpot.</p>
<p>And to that end, I recommend Cory Doctorow's "Masque of the Red
Death", a great snark on the Ellison's and Zuckerbergs and their
elaborate bunker-island-states.<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a
href="https://craphound.com/podcast/2020/03/13/the-masque-of-the-red-death/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://craphound.com/podcast/2020/03/13/the-masque-of-the-red-death/</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think I officially entered what Marcus called "bad faith
territory" a while ago.</p>
<p>But this is MY "Just So" story about money and i'm sticking to
it!<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e7307078-ecc7-4be5-a423-a200107deb93@gmail.com">
<blockquote type="cite">
<br>
At that point, the government has a few not-so-great options:
<br>
<br>
Print more money (hello, inflation),
<br>
<br>
Raise taxes and cut spending (cue screaming),
<br>
<br>
Or pretend everything’s fine (until it’s not).
<br>
<br>
So What’s the Point?
<br>
I’m not saying governments should never borrow. Borrowing to
invest in people, infrastructure, or science makes sense — if
it’s done carefully. But running constant deficits just to keep
the lights on? That’s a recipe for future pain.
<br>
<br>
In a perfect world run by wise leaders, debt wouldn’t matter so
much. But in our world, the least-bad option might just be the
old-fashioned advice: Try not to spend a lot more than you earn.
<br>
<br>
Not because it’s always true, but because it’s a pretty useful
model — at least until someone builds a better one. I'm all ears
and like to evaluate different constructive options, don't just
criticize what's wrong with the current system.
<br>
<br>
On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 at 20:19, glen <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"><mailto:gepropella@gmail.com></a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
And ... and and and, money isn't at all zero sum. The very
concept of "don't spend more than you earn" is not even wrong.
It's a fundamental misunderstanding of money. And Musk is a
great example! When Tesla stock dives, Musk isn't losing what
he's earned. Borrowing money to buy Twitter, collateralized
against estimates of Tesla stock? Did Elno spend less than what
he earned? No. Has he earned whatever "we" estimate his fortune
to be? No. Toss in things like quantitative easing, the value of
USD as the world loses confidence in it, etc. None of that
over-simplified rhetoric makes any sense whatsoever.
<br>
<br>
I'd love it if Elno stopped spending money *he* doesn't
have. And if he did that, you'd see something magical happen,
his name wouldn't be in the headlines every day. Just like with
buying Twitter using imaginary money, the political party he
wants to create is a mechanism for keeping his name in
everyone's feed. He wants you to say his name every day,
multiple times per day. Trump does the same thing. They want you
to keep saying their name. Again. And again ... and again ...
and again... all day every day.
<br>
<br>
Why? Because we (at least in very developed countries) have
an *attention* economy. The more you say their names, the more
money they accumulate. That "huge personal hit" is at best empty
rhetoric and at worst bullshit designed to distract you with one
hand and pick your pocket with the other.
<br>
<br>
On 7/9/25 10:14 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
<br>
> We do have the money. We are a wealthy nation. The
problem is we are cheap.
<br>
>
<br>
> *From: *Friam <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com></a>> on behalf of Pieter
Steenekamp <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za"><mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za></a>>
<br>
> *Date: *Wednesday, July 9, 2025 at 10:07 AM
<br>
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><mailto:friam@redfish.com></a>>
<br>
> *Subject: *[FRIAM] Musk’s America Party – Some
Thoughts from Afar
<br>
>
<br>
> I’m not American—but I’m a big fan of the place.
<br>
>
<br>
> What really keeps me up at night is how both major
political parties in the U.S. seem to have a shared hobby:
spending money like it’s going out of fashion. Year after year,
the national debt grows bigger, and the interest payments grow
even scarier. It’s like watching someone keep swiping a credit
card with no plan to ever pay it back.
<br>
>
<br>
> Now, let me put on my South African cap for a moment.
<br>
>
<br>
> When South Africa became a democracy and Mandela
became president, things were looking financially grim. We
weren’t flat-out broke yet, but we were close. Mandela then did
something very clever: he made Trevor Manuel the finance
minister. Manuel, being honest, told Mandela he knew nothing
about finances. Mandela basically said, “Don’t worry about the
details—we’ve got smart people for that. Just make sure we don’t
spend more than we earn, and I'll politically support you.” And
guess what? South Africa’s finances did great for a while.
<br>
>
<br>
> (Yes, it all fell apart later when Jacob Zuma came
along, but let’s not ruin the story.)
<br>
>
<br>
> Back to America.
<br>
>
<br>
> No, I don’t think the U.S. is heading for an immediate
meltdown—but the idea that it’s too big to fail? Not something
I’d bet my pension on. Sooner or later, the debt monster will
come knocking.
<br>
>
<br>
> Which brings me to Elon Musk’s political adventure.
From where I sit, his main message is: “Hey folks, maybe we
should stop spending money we don’t have?” Whether his new party
takes off or not, I think it’s great that someone is at least
ringing the alarm bell.
<br>
>
<br>
> Even if nobody listens, I’m 100% behind the effort.
Musk is taking a huge personal hit—his companies, his wealth,
all of it’s being affected. But if it helps America become more
financially sensible, I say hats off to him.
<br>
>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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