<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 11:19 AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><ul><li>Did Harold Morowitz make a strong assertion to the tune: "we learned more about thermodynamics from steam-engines than vice-versa"? EricS or StephenG might have first-hand knowledge?</li></ul></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, that quote is the last paragraph of chapter 30 in Harold's "The Emergence of Everything: How the World Became Complex":<br>"The role of technology in science is summed up in this statement: steam engines have taught us more about thermodynamics than thermodynamics has taught us about steam engines."<br><br>It is one of my favorites about applied technique informing theory.</div><div><br>At a SFI tea around the kitchen table, I propposed to Harold a potential modern equivalent of an applied engineering potentially informing Complexity theory. The prevalence of the bidirectional path tracing on the primary and dual model to find 'least action" or optimal transport paths. eg </div><div><ul><li>operations research routing logistics, </li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_tracing#Bidirectional_path_tracing">rendering light</a> </li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzsZ2qMtEUE">sound in games</a></li><li><a href="https://phys.org/news/2013-04-ants-fermat-principle.html">ant foraging algorithms</a>,<a href="https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6475940"> </a></li><li><a href="https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6475940">internet routing path selection</a>, </li><li><a href="https://github.com/cejast/bidirectional-maze-searching">bidirectional maze solving,</a> </li><li>bidirectional dijkstra, etc.</li></ul></div><div>Might primary and dual transactional processes be a general theory of complex systems in at least a nche neighborhood of the discipline? I think he appreciated the system/ecological perspective which was also consistent with his work with Eric in Origin of Life. He certainly was patient with my wild hair speculations - He was one of the kindest and most insightful - suspenders and all. :-)<br><br>-Stephen</div></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">_________________________________________________________________<br>Stephen Guerin<br>CEO, Founder <br><a href="https://simtable.com" target="_blank">https://simtable.com</a><br><a href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com" target="_blank">stephen.guerin@simtable.com</a> <br><br><div><a href="mailto:stephenguerin@fas.harvard.edu" target="_blank">stephenguerin@fas.harvard.edu</a><br><a href="https://hwpi.harvard.edu/eps-visualization-research-laboratory/home" target="_blank">Harvard Visualization Research and Teaching Lab</a><br><div><div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>mobile: (505)577-5828</span></div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 11:19 AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Anima's presentation reminded me quite nicely of the
Numenta/Redwood work of Jeff Hawkins et al? Cortical columns,
etc. </li>
<li>Did Harold Morowitz make a strong assertion to the tune: "we
learned more about thermodynamics from steam-engines than
vice-versa"? EricS or StephenG might have first-hand
knowledge?</li>
<li>Is this theory/practice dichotomy just another form of
meta-scaffolding in evolution (of any system) with the
cut-and-try providing the mutation/selection and the
theory/formalism binding the "lessons learned" into well...
"lessons learned"?</li>
</ul>
<div>On 7/16/2025 2:12 AM, Pieter Steenekamp
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Both the video of Anima Anandkumar’s Stanford
seminar and her scientific paper on Neural Operators really got
me excited—the ideas feel fresh and powerful.<br>
<br>
The paper is quite technical and digs into the math behind
Neural Operators, without talking much about robotics. In her
talk, though, she clearly links the work to robots, and it
sounds as if robotics is a big focus for her team.<br>
<br>
What jumped out at me is how different her style is from
Elon Musk’s approach with Tesla’s Optimus robot. Anandkumar
begins with deep theory, building firm mathematical foundations
first. Musk takes a “just build it” path—make it, test it, break
it, fix it, and keep going.<br>
<br>
This contrast reminds me of engineering school and the
Faraday‑Maxwell story. Faraday was the hands‑on experimenter who
uncovered the basics of electricity and magnetism through
careful tests. Maxwell came later and wrote the elegant
equations that explained what Faraday had already shown.<br>
<br>
So I wonder: will the roles flip this time? Will deep theory
from researchers like Anandkumar guide the breakthroughs first,
with practice following? Or will practical builders like Musk
sprint ahead and let theory catch up afterward?<br>
<br>
Either way, watching these two paths unfold side by side is
thrilling. It feels like we’re standing on the edge of something
big.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 at 04:11,
Jon Zingale <<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" target="_blank">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Even
if just for the freedom of scale, learning infinite
dimensional function spaces, etc...</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caZyFlSSKtI" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caZyFlSSKtI</a></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/2506.10973" target="_blank">https://arxiv.org/pdf/2506.10973</a></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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