<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
Tx, I did read that article myself and it (also) whetted my appetite
a bit for (yet more) abstractions about the emergence of systems,
couplling and identity in that sense as well.
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3D4AD05A-2500-4157-A652-E03A9E3C3AC4@santafe.edu">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Hi Steve,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This was the Wikipedia link Glen had in this paragraph, in
the same post I replied to:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;">Changing gears a bit, I ran
across the "as if" personality <<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_disturbance"
style="color: blue;" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_disturbance</a>>.
I can't help but wonder about a room full of agents
"concealing their inner emptiness, living *as if* they
had genuine feelings and desires." >8^D I'm at risk
of Get-Off-My-Lawn, here. But 90% of the time, when
I'm in a room with more than, say, 5 people, it
*feels* to me like they're all philosophical zombies,
maybe me included.<br>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>I don\u2019t know more than whatever I might have learned to
parrot from reading that link\u2026.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>E</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Dec 2, 2025, at 12:35, Steve Smith
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"><sasmyth@swcp.com></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>EricS -<br>
<br>
I'd like to hear more on this tangent
(identity-stability) in the broadest sense (my focus
would be abstract markov blankets, active inferencing,
"nearly decomposable systems") if possible.<br>
<br>
Not sure if the abstractions of emergent self-other can
be reached from this discussion or not.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Back to Glen\u2019s branch in the
above thread, I could probably imagine an analysis in
which some of these distinctions do propagate up to
how identity is formed, and whether or in what ways it
is stable or unstable, as in borderline personality
disorders and associated. Or maybe not, and the
identity-stability question is a distinct matter (?).<br>
<br>
Anyway, thanks for patience or indulgence if anybody
read this far,<br>
<br>
Eric<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .--
.-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... .
..-. ..- .-..<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays
9a-12p Zoom
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,614F30ECNYgyDc66kuLWhQykVSKqlBdNUOoZWy5-7iMCIrG33R64vRcENRBTDrmWIOc8DE2r1S-6TgF12lmWZXy3pRqEev506yKLAyGUeB7REPE,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,614F30ECNYgyDc66kuLWhQykVSKqlBdNUOoZWy5-7iMCIrG33R64vRcENRBTDrmWIOc8DE2r1S-6TgF12lmWZXy3pRqEev506yKLAyGUeB7REPE,&typo=1</a><br>
to (un)subscribe
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,87BdRDyxUBMbz922eWPUV8xEHJdEHpEjrHdccHcZfkflLzh0iJ-Xhm5d4eBM9gt7sgX7Wr4k2-U3QLC8tELCQSK1ECYvVN7TKwBWEO1a&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,87BdRDyxUBMbz922eWPUV8xEHJdEHpEjrHdccHcZfkflLzh0iJ-Xhm5d4eBM9gt7sgX7Wr4k2-U3QLC8tELCQSK1ECYvVN7TKwBWEO1a&typo=1</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,RxFh6vgv4wXCMJY2z2iBbcD_h2m6y216qvI38gd7R_z57SPgOGxGUEs538tTLVc62yv73BvkqPofnQlQWzG0QAsHhtD4cGBveY7KvheNyYYa&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,RxFh6vgv4wXCMJY2z2iBbcD_h2m6y216qvI38gd7R_z57SPgOGxGUEs538tTLVc62yv73BvkqPofnQlQWzG0QAsHhtD4cGBveY7KvheNyYYa&typo=1</a><br>
archives: 5/2017 thru present
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,jsbHBWFZBXK9mCmUqALVK0J-fGtHzOJV67KWp25haLXO6dkx5wE9p0qIvPnR17b4SLvNpiVRgS3Oj9NQv3KIxDoiLAizGOx7jWl-Rlhy5Q,,&typo=1">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,jsbHBWFZBXK9mCmUqALVK0J-fGtHzOJV67KWp25haLXO6dkx5wE9p0qIvPnR17b4SLvNpiVRgS3Oj9NQv3KIxDoiLAizGOx7jWl-Rlhy5Q,,&typo=1</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a>
to (un)subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: 5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>