[FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Sat Jan 28 16:24:22 EST 2017

Well, Marcus, 

So, the question is , “Should we do what we can do, no matter how lame or ineffectual it might seem?”  Or, should we pull back, “move to Spain’, and leave it to others, “the politicians”, to lower themselves to do what needs to be done.  Isn’t this one of the things the Quakers get right:  You don’t worry about what others are doing.  You do it right, yourself.  You act as you would have others act?  

The answer would seem to depend on whether each one of us thinks that he or she is going to be touched by this thing.  This is where, I think, my libertarian friends (Hi, Guys!) get it wrong.  They think it’s possible to step aside, to lift one’s skirts about the flood of muck that is  about to descend upon us -- survive it all, listening to jazz (say) and eating canned food in the green painted walls of their condo in the depths of their converted missile silo, with flat-screen “windows” looking out on the surrounding countryside. 

“When they came for the immigrants, I didn’t do anything because I was not an immigrant”  etc. 

I think we have to figure out what we can do, and begin to do it.  

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:12 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

It is worth noting he’s living in Spain.  

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > on behalf of "Robert J. Cordingley" <robert at cirrillian.com <mailto:robert at cirrillian.com> >
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Date: Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:34 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

The Washington Post has an interesting essay from a Venezuelan on what to do and mostly what not to do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did

Robert C

On 1/28/17 11:21 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Ok Steve, 

The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge. 

I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I can do with my limited set of skills:  Write Apple and tell them to stop calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.”  When are they going to release the WE-phone.  

You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

What can WE hobbits do? 

Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?

Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that the Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused) reflection of our own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we tend our own garden even a little, it will help with the greater picture.   

- Candide

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>; Friam  <mailto:Friam at redfish.com> <Friam at redfish.com>
Cc: penny thompson  <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net> <penny.thompson at earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'  <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com> <bjs108 at yahoo.com>; 'Dix McComas'  <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com> <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks'  <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net> <grantfranks at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win with is true.”  And if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true for him. Exactly.

If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would say peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march was impressive, and the rebellion of the social media managers from the national parks is really refreshing. Who would have thought that the national parks would strike back? Like Treebeard who becomes alive.

In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the house elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's Lord of the Rings it is the Hobbits that beat the evil enemy. I think in this case people like Ken Bone are the Hobbits of the 21st century. The modern Hobbits are adverage midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump and his "party" on Twitter and hope to get a bit rich and famous along the way.

People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump is Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone throw the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following Trump on Twitter and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all stop following and listening him he loses his power. This includes the senior Republican politicians who do not speak up against him because they hope for a job in his administration.

Cheers,

Jochen

Sent from my Tricorder

-------- Original message --------

From: Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net> > 

Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00) 

To: Friam <Friam at redfish.com <mailto:Friam at redfish.com> > 

Cc: penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net> >, 'Bruce Simon' <bjs108 at yahoo.com <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com> >, 'Dix McComas' <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com> >, 'Grant Franks' <grantfranks at earthlink.net <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net> > 

Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again] 

Hi everybody,

I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to keep coming back to this topic, even when we are  talking about globalism. 

So.  Let me just share one thought.  I have said a hundred times that I think the great achievement of the Right in my life time has been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the 1950’s  One of the elements of that consensus was that there is a truth of most matters and if we gather inclusively, talk calmly, reason closely, study carefully, investigate rigorously,  we will, together , come to it.  What was, at the time of my coming of age, the shared foundation of argument, became over last 50 years, a position in the argument.  The alternative to this Deweyan position seems to be something like, “There is no truth of the matter; there is only the exercise of power.  He who wins the argument, by whatever means, wins the truth.  Truth is not something that is arrived at; it is won.”

So.  My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying.  On the contrary, he does not share the view of discourse that makes lying a possibility.  From Trump’s point of view, “Whatever I can win with is true.”  Hence, if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true. 

I feel we are straying along the edge of some Nietzschean chasm here.  Unfortunately  I haven’t read any Nietzsche .  A brief rummage in Wikipedia, led me to The Parable of the Madman <http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp> . And THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men> , about marketing execs in the 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind.  In any case, if there is ever a domain in which the truth is that which wins, it would be marketing. 

So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by demonstrating that he lies.  It has to be by demonstrating that liars don’t win. 

Heavy lift.

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> 

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