[FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Sun Jan 29 02:14:57 EST 2017

So we’re stuck, right, Pamela?  There’s nothing we can do?  Just sit and take it?  

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 4:53 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Before we blame any particular technology for what seems like an epidemic of narcissism, we ought to remember that the 80s—or was it the 70s?—were widely known as the Me Decade. Either way, long before social media.

I’m always deeply amused by the libertarians who tell us how wicked government interference is at exactly the time they’re making their plush livings off a technology that wouldn’t have existed without decades (the fifties, the sixties, the seventies) of government investment. Would the Internet have happened anyway? Hard to imagine private investors sitting still for an investment that wouldn’t pay off for almost half a century.

So, drifting afar from a reality base isn’t unknown in Silly Valley.

On Jan 28, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net> > wrote:

Steve –

Is there any way in which the computer industry has contributed to the narcissistic pandemic that is sweeping the world.  Is there anything that participants in the computer industry could do tip the world back toward a fact-based attractor?  

If the answer to that question is no, then I suppose that starting that barfight might be your highest and best use.  Let me know which bar you are going to, so I can come and watch.  

But I think the question is yes. 

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [ <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:15 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < <mailto:friam at redfish.com> friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Toolkit?  This rusty old box filled with rusty things that once resembled sharp tools and useful fasteners?   

I was thinking that if we *all* burned one gallon of petrol *less* a month (and everyone "like us") the demand would drop commensurately and the cost/value proposition for the pipelines we all love to hate would (eventually) drop below a certain threshold.  

Similarly, if we *all* made it a point to have one *more* thoughtful conversation (not just a rant) with those not already in the choir,  we might reverse the tide of *ugly* populism and replace it with something more human (maybe still a form of populism, but not nationalistic/xenophobic/misogynistic?).

If we *all* quit worrying about how the Trump Ascension was going to hurt *our* personal context and recognized how it was going to hurt (or in some twisted or strange way help) the larger context and then only consider how our personal context would be effected in turn by the larger context (is a happier, healthier, more informed society good or bad for you and your family?  vs can I pay lower taxes, get more government services and be afforded less expensive access to other resources nominally part of the commons?)  

et cetera, ad nauseum

I know I'm preaching (somewhat) to the choir here, time to take my own advice and go start a barfight with a Trumpian or something,
 - Steve

Ok Steve, 

The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge. 

I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I can do with my limited set of skills:  Write Apple and tell them to stop calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.”  When are they going to release the WE-phone.  

You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [ <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

What can WE hobbits do? 

Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?

Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that the Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused) reflection of our own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we tend our own garden even a little, it will help with the greater picture.   

- Candide

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [ <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>; Friam  <mailto:Friam at redfish.com> <Friam at redfish.com>
Cc: penny thompson  <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net> <penny.thompson at earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'  <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com> <bjs108 at yahoo.com>; 'Dix McComas'  <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com> <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks'  <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net> <grantfranks at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win with is true.”  And if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true for him. Exactly.

If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would say peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march was impressive, and the rebellion of the social media managers from the national parks is really refreshing. Who would have thought that the national parks would strike back? Like Treebeard who becomes alive.

In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the house elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's Lord of the Rings it is the Hobbits that beat the evil enemy. I think in this case people like Ken Bone are the Hobbits of the 21st century. The modern Hobbits are adverage midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump and his "party" on Twitter and hope to get a bit rich and famous along the way.

People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump is Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone throw the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following Trump on Twitter and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all stop following and listening him he loses his power. This includes the senior Republican politicians who do not speak up against him because they hope for a job in his administration.

Cheers,

Jochen

Sent from my Tricorder

-------- Original message --------

From: Nick Thompson < <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net> nickthompson at earthlink.net> 

Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00) 

To: Friam < <mailto:Friam at redfish.com> Friam at redfish.com> 

Cc: penny thompson < <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net> penny.thompson at earthlink.net>, 'Bruce Simon' < <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com> bjs108 at yahoo.com>, 'Dix McComas' < <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com> dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>, 'Grant Franks' < <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net> grantfranks at earthlink.net> 

Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again] 

Hi everybody,

I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to keep coming back to this topic, even when we are  talking about globalism. 

So.  Let me just share one thought.  I have said a hundred times that I think the great achievement of the Right in my life time has been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the 1950’s  One of the elements of that consensus was that there is a truth of most matters and if we gather inclusively, talk calmly, reason closely, study carefully, investigate rigorously,  we will, together , come to it.  What was, at the time of my coming of age, the shared foundation of argument, became over last 50 years, a position in the argument.  The alternative to this Deweyan position seems to be something like, “There is no truth of the matter; there is only the exercise of power.  He who wins the argument, by whatever means, wins the truth.  Truth is not something that is arrived at; it is won.”

So.  My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying.  On the contrary, he does not share the view of discourse that makes lying a possibility.  From Trump’s point of view, “Whatever I can win with is true.”  Hence, if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true. 

I feel we are straying along the edge of some Nietzschean chasm here.  Unfortunately  I haven’t read any Nietzsche .  A brief rummage in Wikipedia, led me to  <http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp> The Parable of the Madman. And THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series,  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men> Madmen, about marketing execs in the 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind.  In any case, if there is ever a domain in which the truth is that which wins, it would be marketing. 

So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by demonstrating that he lies.  It has to be by demonstrating that liars don’t win. 

Heavy lift.

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

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