[FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

[Russ Abbott]

Nick noted,

"Nobody claimed that civility would solve *every *problem, did they?"

I can't answer that question. If someone did, I disagree; I agree with
those who would deny such a claim.

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 9:28 AM Douglass Carmichael <doug at dougcarmichael.com>
wrote:

> The word *truth* has an interesting history
>
> begins in feudalism (same as troth, as in “i pledge thee my troth”) as a
> relation between two people (as in the knighthood ceremony)
>
> moves on to the nature of tools, “this blade is true”
>
> moves on to the relationship of things to things, true material world
>  thing to thing as in science.
>
> The human relation side has been slowly stripped out.
>
> We have over objectified and materialized the world. Time for a reset to
> where *truth* has an element of faith and trust as interpersonal along
> with the material. Science actually does this, though unspoken, we feel
> faith and trust in another scientist as part of the science culture.
>
> doug
>
>
> On Sep 14, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Marcus, Owen
>
> Allow me to heckle, if you will.  Marcus, your post exemplifies a theory
> of human nature which is summarized by the motto, *in caloris veritas.  *It
> is the idea that we speak the truth when we speak in the heat of the
> moment.  Trump is a wonderful demonstration of the weakness of this theory:
> he always speaks impulsively, but never manages to speak the truth about
> anything.  I think it’s equally plausible to assert that we come closest to
> the truth of any matter when we speak with the keenest awareness of the
> social consequences of what we are saying.
>
> Hey Frank; did I get the Latin right?
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <friam-bounces at redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:21 AM
> *To:* Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about
> it)
>
> Owen,
>
> On several occasions over the years, I have been advised by `neural third
> parties' that the content of my writing can be edgy, but that in person I'm
> "Not that way" or "He's fine."   Now, some people think that in-person
> interactions are more representative of a person's character.   That if we
> just get in front of one another and _see_ the others' feelings, all
> conflict will be resolved.  No.  I would suggest Roberts' (Friedman, and
> other popular writers) preoccupation with civility is mistaken.   Civility
> may keep people from killing each other, temporarily, but it certainly
> isn't informative.  It is just the application of social skill, and this is
> not the same thing as listening, thinking, or being honest in debate.  It
> is a weak facilitator.  The problem with the current situation is that one
> side is just dishonest.  In the ternary world of politics, the `don't care'
> folks are in the crossfire, and that is appropriate.
>
> Marcus
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Owen Densmore <
> owen at backspaces.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 13, 2017 9:04:42 PM
> *To:* Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)
>
> Medium, my current outlet of choice, has an interesting "story" (Medium
> deals in Stories, not Tech nor Politics nor ...). It echos a lot of what
> we've been dealing with.
> ​    ​
>
> https://medium.com/@russroberts/the-world-turned-upside-down-and-what-to-do-about-it-2dc27d1cf5f5
>
> ​Somewhat dark, but awfully close to home.
>
>    -- Owen ​
>
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>
>
> Blessings,
> Doug
>
>
> Douglass Carmichael
> doug at dougcarmichael.com
> www.dougcarmichael.com
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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-- 
Russ Abbott
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
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