[FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"

Tue Sep 19 23:49:15 EDT 2017

Physicists Are Philosophers, Too - Scientific American
<https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/>
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> M.
>
>
>
> M
>
> I am sure they were smart people, but did they know anything about the
> history and contemporary practice of philosophy, or were they starting from
> scratch.   I guess I think that it’s almost as preposterous to say that a
> physicist can do philosophy as to say that a philosopher can do physics.  N
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Merle
> Lefkoff
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 19, 2017 6:15 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"
>
>
>
> Definitely the latter.  They were a big help to me with my "Coexistence"
> modeling project.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> M
>
>
>
> In what sense philosophers?  They liked to entertain lofty thoughts?  Or,
> they were systematic thinkers in relation to things beyond the realm of
> physics?
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Merle
> Lefkoff
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 19, 2017 1:19 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"
>
>
>
> Nick, the quantum physicists that I worked with during my four years at
> CNLS were very much also philosophers.  I think it kept them reasonably
> sane.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:26 PM, Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> Marcus,
>
>
>
> To be honest, I have never seen what philosophy has to do with quantum
> mechanics.  I agree with you that the idea of a real world outside
> experience is nonsense but I don’t see how QM gets you there.  Peirce held
> that all “objective” observation consist of guesses at what we all, the
> community of inquiry, will agree is real, after much discussion, in the
> very long run.  So it’s all experience, all the way down, except that
> “reality” is a sort of future experience.  No dualism allowed.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus
> Daniels
> *Sent:* Monday, September 18, 2017 10:40 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"
>
>
>
> "Experiment after experiment has shown—defying common sense—that if we
> assume that the particles that make up ordinary objects have an objective,
> observer-independent existence, we get the wrong answers. The central
> lesson of quantum physics is clear: There are no public objects sitting out
> there in some preexisting space."
>
> For some reason, many scientists seem to believe that they are independent
> observers and not part of the physics they measure.   If they can give that
> up, then things make more sense.
>
> Marcus
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <
> wimberly3 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 18, 2017 7:56:16 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"
>
>
>
> This resonates with various Framework discussions.  I think it's an area
> of interest to Nick.
>
>
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-
> illusion-of-reality/479559/?utm_source=atlfb
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
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> --
>
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> emergentdiplomacy.org
>
> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>
> Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding
>
> Saint Paul University
>
> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
> merlelefkoff at gmail.com <merlelefoff at gmail.com>
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>
> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> emergentdiplomacy.org
>
> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>
> Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding
>
> Saint Paul University
>
> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
> merlelefkoff at gmail.com <merlelefoff at gmail.com>
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>
> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding
Saint Paul University
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

merlelefkoff at gmail.com <merlelefoff at gmail.com>
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
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