[FRIAM] Object Oriented Ontology

Thu Jul 5 16:15:57 EDT 2018

Hi Nick,

I write this from Kloster Irsee, Bavaria. A beautiful, mostly restored
old monastery that was a THE civil authority in the Middle Ages with
about 20  villages and 3K tax paying villagers. Also an "insane asylum"
and a minor part of Hitler's extermination program — about 2,000 inmates
transported for death or killed on site. Of course now it is a
conference center and I am attending EuroPLoP. From here to Istanbul
then Amsterdam, then home at end of July.
I know a philosopher, mostly his expertise is in Asian Philosophy but he
did read Kant's Critique in high school and is quite familiar with most
of the postmodernists (read Lacan, but not in Paris).
Harman:

1) He, and I, pretty much equate ontology with metaphysics -
   differentiation of "Reality" into discrete entities and giving each a
   name — plus, very importantly, stating which named things are "real"
   and which are not. E.g. Atoms are 'real', unicorns are not. BTW,
   "pure mathematics is not metaphysically 'real' in this context.
2) Harman uses the label "object" for those entities that are both
   differentiated and 'real'. He expressly imbues his own conception of
   objects with the sense/quality of that from object oriented
   programming (circa Alan Kay, but not since then) because both are
   differentiated on the basis of behavior— how they act, what they do.
3) Absent a shared ontology - discussion becomes difficult if not real.
   Harman makes this point with regard politics, "fake news" and Trump.
4) A lack of shared ontology is what doomed object-oriented
   programming. One side, always a minority, deemed that only those
   objects defined by their behavior were 'real'. The other side deemed
   only those objects reduced to data structures or aggregates of op-
   codes were 'real'.  A generalization, mostly accurate, one-side
   believed that only that within the computer was 'real' the other
   only that outside the computer was real. Objects were supposed to
   provide a share vocabulary — a shared ontology — that bridged that
   gap. Didn't happen.
5) I am interested in ontology on two fronts: one, pragmatic, how an
   "ontology tool" would facilitate the design and development of
   "natural systems" — defined as the antithesis of the "artificial
   systems" built by computer scientists, software engineers, IT
   professionals et. al,, the past fifty years; and two, the possibility
   of an ontology for the mystical and/or "altered states of
   consciousness."
davew

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 8:35 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Ah, David.  It WAS you.  I might have known.  (};-/)

>  

> Has anybody else read it?

>  

> I guess one question I might have concerns any relation between Object
> Oriented Ontology and Object Oriented Programming.  Harman, disclaims
> much of a relation (pp 10-11), but I’m betting you see one, and even
> that it’s important to you.>  

> I am also wondering, as I have often done, what you experts make of
> the word “ontology.”  I have no idea what it means.  Never have.   It
> is a deeply philosophical word yet some philosophically skeptical
> computer folks that I know (*ahem, ahem**) seem to use it.>  

> Where are you David?  Are you “in country” or did we lose you to
> Europe?  Have you become a Eurokid?  Are you reading Lacan and sipping
> espresso in the shade of the plane trees *en la Place de la Sorbonne.*> * *

> Great to be in touch!

>  

> Nick

>  

> *Who am I to cast the first stone, Owen?

>  

>  

> Nicholas S. Thompson

> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

> Clark University

> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

>  

> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Prof
> David West *Sent:* Thursday, July 05, 2018 2:59 AM *To:*
> friam at redfish.com *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Object Oriented Ontology>  

> Nick

>  

> Twas I that brought the book to your attention and I have read it
> twice and am using it as a foundation for writing a chapter in my
> Natural Systems Design book.>  

> Happy to discuss and perhaps answer some of your questions and help
> you find the path through the forest.>  

> davew

>  

>  

>  

> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018, at 7:51 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

>> Dear Colleagues,

>>  

>> One of you [wretches], assigned me this book[1] for a little light
>> summer reading before I left SF in March.  It was a seductive
>> assignment.  In the first place, the book is a little book.  I LIKE
>> little books.  Cheap and easy to carry.  In the second place, as I
>> read around in it, I see echoes of Peirce in its monism and realism
>> and fascination with metaphors (aka “signs”?).  Every chapter begins
>> in an ingratiating introduction that gives promise of progress in the
>> rational construction of a complex idea.>>  

>> There my praise ends.  I have started all the chapters with the
>> greatest of good will and have gotten thoroughly lost in every one.>>  

>> I deeply suspect that whichever one of you [wretches] who assigned it
>> to me has never read it from cover to cover.>>  

>> SO:    Will you now do that with me?  And will others join?  It would
>> be best if we could snare a few philosophers to join us because the
>> author does seem to be rather deeply into philosophy, both post
>> modern and the other kind.>>  

>> It’s hard to believe that it has *nothing* to do with object oriented
>> programing, but it may not.>>  

>> Fess up!

>>  

>> NIck

>>  

>>  

>>  

>> Nicholas S. Thompson

>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

>> Clark University

>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

>>  

>> ============================================================

>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

>  

> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Links:

  1. https://www.amazon.com/Object-Oriented-Ontology-New-Theory-Everything/dp/0241269156/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530754578&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=Graham+Harmon+Object+Oriented
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20180705/77ef8d8c/attachment.html>