[FRIAM] IT is Not Sustainable
Frank Wimberly
wimberly3 at gmail.com
Thu Dec 26 19:27:44 EST 2019
Bob Ballance!!
-----------------------------------
Frank Wimberly
My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
Phone (505) 670-9918
On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 4:40 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, there was a guy who had also worked at Bell Labs, for a lot longer
> than I did, who used to come to Friam. Then he got some kind of honorary
> position in DC left town temporarily. He had thinning white hair and wore
> glasses and was about my height. With that unique description someone must
> know who I'm talking about. His name is on the tip of my tongue.
>
> Frank
>
> -----------------------------------
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 4:06 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Our Own Lee Rudolph, was there as well. In the belly of Net Logo, I
>> think.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lee???? Are you out there?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 26, 2019 2:56 PM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] IT is Not Sustainable
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank -
>>
>> I am, it's first draft is roughly what I get when I filter my
>> outbox. The chapters on "memoirs of sci/tech" are in the
>> "recipients:Friam" stream... this collection may very well also be the
>> primary contents of many's TL;DR folder here.
>>
>> I would appreciate a second memoir from yourself covering the years
>> (and anecdotes) including running Paul Erdos out of the Berkeley Campus
>> Library each night and the belly of the ATT and CMU (and???) beasts... to
>> complement the not-too-long-after-wild-wild-west days in NM.
>>
>> My friend who is no more than a couple of years younger than you who
>> grew up in Las Vegas and Amarillo recognized a lot of familiar "color" from
>> your memoir. He got lucky and ended up at MIT in the early 60s...
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>> On 12/26/19 11:30 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>> You should write a memoir.
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Frank Wimberly
>>
>> My memoir:
>> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>>
>> My scientific publications:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>>
>> Phone (505) 670-9918
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 10:42 AM Steven A Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>>
>> Frank -
>>
>> It is fascinating to hear that you were in the "belly of the beast" if
>> only for a short while. I suppose we have all been in the belly of *some*
>> beast in our various times.
>>
>> My earliest years were without a telephone in the house (camp-trailer in
>> the woods) followed by several party lines (shared in 2 cases amongst other
>> USFS families in forest-camp compounds) and understanding that the magical
>> rings and voices coming from the handsets in the house were modulated
>> (whatever that meant to a 3 year old) over the insulated bundles of wires
>> running from tree-to-tree and pole-to-pole... It wasn't hard to
>> understand the idea that if voices could travel over single wires, that any
>> one of us on a party line could pick up and hear the other's voices during
>> a conversation or even that the volume/static on the line would abruptly
>> change if someone picked up (say to listen in?). It made perfect sense
>> that such resources (wires on poles) were very scarce and needed to be
>> shared... I had heard of operator-assisted calling which made great sense
>> (patch panels) but the idea that the pulses sent via the spring-loaded
>> rotary dial could "tell" a electromechanical switch (my father showed me
>> the one in the main location at the second forest camp when I was about 5)
>> and I remember watching/hearing a call go through it... relays opening and
>> closing as ring pulses went through...
>>
>> One of my friend's father was the local telephone lineman and he was busy
>> all the time either going out on trouble calls or doing maintenance on the
>> switches. Realizing that in a community of roughly 300 (600 in the county
>> at the time!) was keeping one man busy (more than) full time doing this was
>> my first taste of "infrastructure". I don't know what kind of backup he
>> had... I never saw anyone else working with him nor heard of anyone else
>> employed... though I do know sometimes there were company trucks parked at
>> the fenced yard next to his house... probably for new line buildout?
>> Another father of a friend owned/operated the local "vending" routes which
>> included soda machines, candy machines and best of all pinball machines.
>> HIs territory must have been pretty wide because our 300 town only had one
>> soda/candy machine at each of 2 gasoline stations and 3 pinball machines at
>> the drug/variety store. I got to see the ones in their shop behind the
>> house under repair opened up and really got a kick out of trying to "trace
>> the logic" of a coin-drop/lever-pull, delivery-chute... and even better,
>> the complex logic of a pinball machine. Yet another father drove the
>> propane delivery truck (he had a boss who drove some, but he was the main
>> driver) and another who ran the local branch of the power - coop along
>> with his wife. They had more trucks that came in from the next large town
>> (60 miles and maybe 1000 people?) to do major repairs/upgrades, but he was
>> out in his truck all the time fixing/installing *something*. Several of
>> these men ran an ad-hoc cable network in the core of the village...
>> nothing came in by antenna and I guess they had their own up on a mountain
>> with a rebroadcast system... the network was down as much as it was up
>> and while *some* of the customers had to have been paying customers, it was
>> these guys who somewho cooperatively kept it going. I *knew* that someone
>> besides these men were *designing* and *building* the systems they
>> maintained (thought the cable TV thing was more DIY).
>>
>> Many years later, we moved to a large town/small-city (2 supermarkets, a
>> dozen motels and gas stations?) and our neighbors at the edge of town owned
>> the local AM radio station... they solicited me to clean the station every
>> Saturday and after a few months of that I graduated to typing up station
>> program logs and then began to operate the station under supervision...
>> they were largely "automated" which meant 4 big carousels with 4-track
>> endless loop (similar to 8-track) cartidges that we would load with music,
>> PSAs and commercials which were then "programmed" by inserting pins in
>> different patch-panels... there were two modes... for example, the system
>> that took over on the top of hour for the network news would inject one of
>> a small handful of instrumental tunes that could be faded/interrupted
>> at-will to flip over the newsfeed. The rest of the time, the system had a
>> priority stack and the commercial/PSAs stack had priority in the sense that
>> it wanted to play out it's queue within the allotted time (usually one
>> hour) no matter what... while the music queue would simply play whenever
>> one of the others were not... only rarely (due to bad planning) would a
>> commercial or PSA go unplayed. Not every hour was different, but there
>> were periods (8-12AM, 1-5PM, 6-10PM) that had a particular character and
>> there was some variation within it. By the time I was 15 (Freshman in HS)
>> the station owners saw my diligence and curiosity (the Station Engineer
>> would take the time to explain most everything there to me in as much
>> detail as I had time for) and offered me a nighttime live show which I ran
>> for most of my HS years. I always had the option to fire up the automated
>> system, as I was also trying to do my homework during that time. I went
>> in to the station before 4PM to handle the 4-6 news programs (I can still
>> hear Paul Harvey ringing in my ears) and then the (automated) 6-7 PM
>> "sundown serenade" curated by the wife but executed by me (most of the
>> time). At 7 we rolled into "the Night Show" which was conceived by the
>> owners to be something for the "youth crowd". It was nominally a Rock show
>> but was really Top-40 by their measure... We had the full array of classic
>> rock vinyl in the shelves and I was allowed to use (most of) it but there
>> was the top-40 billboard charts to be serviced which meant a lot of
>> pop-rock and country-rock and pop-pop.
>>
>> Yet another exposure to the complexities of "programming" and "logic"
>> from a somewhat different perspective. The engineer at the time had been
>> on the predecessor to the NIF fusion project in Livermore (MFE?)
>> (designing/building the capacitor banks) and clued me in a lot of things.
>> He was a greasy-haired wiry little hippy that drove an old italian
>> convertible (very finicky with dual carbs...) and had a penchant for
>> visiting the bars/brothels in Mexico (this was a border town) and probably
>> got rolled by someone at least once a year... and had the stories (and
>> scuffs) to tell about it. He taught me binary logic/arithmetic and showed
>> me how that related to the somewhat similar/different discrete/analog
>> systems behind the carousels (all the electronics were exposed, so you
>> could trace wires and watch relays open/close) and even taught me the
>> basics of analog circuits including soldering, relays, power
>> amplifiers/transmitters. Later, as I went into the all-digital world of
>> Computer Science, It was as if I was learning about Mammals after growing
>> up among only Marsupials. Of course automobiles had their own share of
>> analog-discrete logic with an HV (timed) side and a 12V mostly continuous
>> (but with switches/relays) side. This was the 70s and the autos of
>> interest were mostly from the 50s/60s.
>>
>> I went to LANL in 1981 to work on the Proton Storage Ring which was in
>> some ways the epitome of an anolog/digital hybrid systems with huge
>> subsystems being HV and HF while others were "utility" (110/60) and yet
>> others were TTL. The place was "in flux" all the time... with magnetic
>> fields (intended and unintended) coming and going effecting everything.
>> It was a quite the milieu. Moving to HPC was both a relief and a whole
>> new world... even though I still worked with some analog systems, they
>> were much less dangerous and much less high speed... the digital stuff was
>> lickety-split (by those days standards) and the introduction of vector and
>> parallel (and eventually distributed) processing was new and interesting.
>> By the time I was mentoring others (90s), the backgrounds were almost
>> exclusively digital and most if not all of the "kids" that came through had
>> never even worked on their own cars, much less vending machine or automated
>> tape carousel logic.
>>
>> As Y2K approached, a consultant from SAIC was working in my general
>> area... we became friends... but his role and way of thinking was
>> incredibly foreign to me. One of his roles (he felt like a plant from the
>> military-industrial into the military-scientific establishment) was to
>> consult on Y2K readiness. My system at the time had been hand-built on
>> top of UNIX (replacing a VMS system that was falling apart every day) by a
>> small team (3-5 of us) and while I did not know every line of code in the
>> system (I had written a good portion of it), we had coding practices and
>> standards and code-reviews and I was roughly 99.9% confident that we didn't
>> have a single 2-digit date in the system, nor did we depend on any
>> libraries or system code which did. The open-source/community nature of
>> BSD Unix meant that everything we relied on and trusted without inspecting
>> personally had been inspected by hundreds or thousands of others. The Y2K
>> problem had been discussed a lot and there were plenty of procedures in
>> place to encourage (though never ensure) that every code-team/system had
>> expunged any possible Y2K bugs. My SAIC buddy talked in SLOC and had
>> metrics up the wazoo about things which almost exclusively did not apply
>> (well) to our systems as-designed and as-built. There may well have been
>> (especially in the Business Processing side of the house) some big
>> risk/holes, but I knew my system intimately and the other major/similar
>> systems (slightly larger development teams with more turnover) were well in
>> hand.
>>
>> We (the three major systems) also had on-call responsibility and were
>> used to being called at 3AM if something wasn't right.... *we* had been
>> trained by the operations staff to not leave them hanging... they could be
>> pretty easy-going/helpful with those of us who answered our phones and were
>> easy-going/helpful with them, but the few who thought they shouldn't have
>> to help stand up a system they built when it fell over (or sprung a leak)
>> at 3AM on a holiday discovered quickly that they would not be let off
>> easier just because they were reluctant or pissy about the call. Bottom
>> line was that we (developers) knew that our systems had to run 24/7/365 and
>> the 00:00:01 01/01/00 was just like any other day, and if/when/as the
>> dominoes might start to fall, it was OUR job to be right there standing
>> back up any of OUR dominoes that might fall on their own or be knocked down
>> by others. There was a little rivalry between systems (operations as well
>> as development) but for the most part of someone else's system was falling
>> down and making a mess (creating possible/implied bugs in other systems)
>> we all pulled together pretty well. I don't know to this day if my SAIC
>> friend understood how coordinated and intimate we all were, because he kept
>> on predicting gloom and doom for us as the date approached. As it was,
>> there wasn't even much scurry as the calendar/clocks cranked over Y2K, and
>> I don't remember any acute problems. We (wanted to?) believed that the
>> ADP side of the house had no end of problems due to their heavy dependence
>> on commercial systems/layers/middle-ware/vendors. As I remember it, Y2K
>> was pretty much a flop everywhere.
>>
>> All this in response to "IT is Not Sustainable". I would claim that
>> virtually NOTHING we build is sustainable... or at least there is a huge
>> spectrum. Engineering can be incredibly robust within it's design
>> parameters, but is often incredibly fragile when confronted with a
>> unexpected conditions... Evolved systems are also simultaneously fragile
>> and robust. They are robust within the "basins of attraction" implied by
>> the ecosystem they operate within but once pushed out of those robust
>> regions they can self-destruct quickly... I've been studying (very loosely)
>> the myriad examples of species extinction and habitat loss and cascading
>> failures (in progress and/or impending) in our ecosystems and am appalled
>> at how unprepared we (humans, engineers, even scientists) are to apprehend
>> the fragile interconnectedness and "designed for near-optimal-conditions"
>> we have set up. Not precisely a house of cards, a line of dominos, a
>> stack of Jenga sticks, but not precisely NOT those either.
>>
>> My recent trip to Europe/Scandinavia opened my eyes to some things I was
>> previously under-aware of. The evolved-engineered systems of polder and
>> canal and dike and hydrology in the Netherlands is perhaps the most
>> impressive. Realizing that they started significantly holding back the
>> north sea during the "little ice age" (dikes and polders had started
>> earlier, but this was when they really came into their own?) helps me to
>> appreciate the difference between what they have done there over centuries
>> vs what our own Army Corps has done in less than 100... and most to the
>> point, the ways a whole culture can adapt to things including their own
>> engineering given many generations, but how we "moderns" don't have time to
>> adapt culturally to the changes. We DO adapt (the talk of telephones and
>> the earliest examples leading up to a global wireless,
>> multi-system-technology mesh/grid being an example), but it isn't clear to
>> me that our adaptation is *deep* enough to be robust...
>>
>> Another example in less detail is what has been come to be called "the
>> Nordic Secret" which is roughly the response of Scandinavia to the
>> enlightenment followed by the industrial revolution and perhaps most
>> acutely the post WWII industrial/cultural explosion in the west. In many
>> ways they follow the rest of the West, but it seems they may actually know
>> "a secret" about sustainability, both industrially and culturally.
>>
>> The "Endogenous Existential Threats" of our time are many/myriad and to
>> the point... Endogenous... self-generatated... and while we may be taking
>> down a lot of the biosphere-as-we-know it with us, the biggest tragedy
>> seems to be set to land ON us, and those closest to us (our domisticates
>> and the remaining large mammal species)... though that also may simply be
>> an anthropocentric view.
>>
>> As Dave's title says "IT" is not sustainable... you name the "it" and
>> it very likely has a lamer lifetime than you imagine (my Y2K anecdote
>> notwithstanding)...
>>
>> I WILL say that despite my neo-Luddite rants, I've become more of an
>> Eco-Modernist of late... not necessarily wanting to trust that we can
>> "technology" our way out of the disasters we are creating with our
>> technology, but recognizing that perhaps we have little other choice
>> (culturally)... and that we must *try* to walk the tightrope of using
>> "fire to fight fire" but with (perhaps) a lot more self-awareness than that
>> which we used to paint ourselves into this (mixed metaphor of a) corner.
>>
>> </ramble>
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/26/19 9:08 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> "CenturyLink (NYSE: CTL) has set a goal to reduce power consumption on
>> its public switched telephone network by nearly 22,000 megawatt-hours a
>> year, reducing greenhouse gas emissions as more customers migrate to VoIP
>> and mobile voice services.
>>
>> Although CenturyLink is growing its IP-based voice service, this project
>> is focused on consolidating more than 400,000 legacy PSTN subscriber lines
>> across 50 Class 5 voice switches. "
>>
>>
>>
>> They're called class 5 because of 5ESS which is the most used class 5
>> switch at CenturyLink.
>>
>> Sorry, but I had to clarify this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Frsnk
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Frank Wimberly
>>
>> My memoir:
>> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>>
>> My scientific publications:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>>
>> Phone (505) 670-9918
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 8:43 AM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> June 2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template message). 5ESS
>> used in a mobile telephone network. The 5ESS Switching System is a Class 5
>> telephone electronic switching system developed by ...
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Frank Wimberly
>>
>> My memoir:
>> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>>
>> My scientific publications:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>>
>> Phone (505) 670-9918
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 8:36 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Frank writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> “This was the telephone network in question.“
>>
>>
>>
>> With the mobile carriers and VOIP, I wonder how much of that code is
>> still used? I once worked for a small company that wrote software to do
>> billing for long distance telephone carriers. I was amazed by the
>> seemingly arbitrary complexity. Complex at a policy and
>> inter-organizational level, not just the software.
>>
>>
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <
>> wimberly3 at gmail.com>
>> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 5:39 AM
>> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] IT is Not Sustainable
>>
>>
>>
>> At Bell Labs we sure didn't pay anyone by LOC. We also had code reviews
>> and software tools to enforce standards and very high pay. With a brand
>> new PhD I made more than all but the 3 most senior members of the CS
>> faculty at Pitt where I was a grad student. This was the telephone network
>> in question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Despite the high pay I disliked software administration methodology. The
>> disagreements between the software tool developers (version control,
>> integration of subsystems, compilers, etc) and the implementors of the
>> applications, such as call processing, were epic. Recall that Bell Labs
>> invented C and Unix. After 18 months I returned to Pittsburgh to work at
>> Carnegie Mellon in Robotics for two thirds the salary.
>>
>>
>>
>> Number 5 ESS was first deployed in March 1982, 4 years after work began.
>> I suspect that it didn't have 200 million lines of code then, but close to
>> it. Maybe Dave doesn't consider it an IT project but many of the software
>> tools that were developed were included in later Unix releases, I believe.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's going to be a beautiful day in Santa Fe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Frank Wimberly
>>
>> My memoir:
>> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>>
>> My scientific publications:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>>
>> Phone (505) 670-9918
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 1:28 AM Gary Schiltz <gary at naturesvisualarts.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Spot on.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 2:29 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Most programmers won't struggle to rationalize or improve code written by
>> other people. The problem is that people are selfish. They think that
>> their 10K LOC problem is beautiful and nimble, but that 1M LOC was once
>> that too. It's the behavior of teenagers.
>>
>> On 12/25/19, 10:47 PM, "Friam on behalf of Russell Standish" <
>> friam-bounces at redfish.com on behalf of lists at hpcoders.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> It's all about the LOC! Actually, I kind of agree - having worked on
>> some MegaLOC codebases that functionally seemed to be no more complex
>> than a 10KLOC project I'm involved in, the 10KLOC project is much more
>> nimble - compile times are far less, making changes to the code easier
>> and bugs less troublesome to winkle out.
>>
>> I've also refactored or rewritten pieces of code to slash the LOC by a
>> factor of 3 or more for that particular section (eg 3KLOC -> 1KLOC) -
>> but usually when bugs and problems kept on cropping up in that
>> section.
>>
>> Even though the LOC is an entirely bogus measurement - if you paid a
>> programmer by LOC, you'd get boilerplate and crappy comments.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
>> Principal, High Performance Coders
>> Visiting Senior Research Fellow hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au
>> Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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>
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